sublimity Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > purealpha Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > If your firm has become the govies biatch then > > your bonus will be 100% taxed by the govies. > > I would say tax these fockers 300% - make it go > back a few years. > > Destroy their lives, as they have destroyed > others. Did you read this part on the WSJ web site: In his letter Tuesday, Mr. Cuomo said AIG was able to bargain with some of its financial-products employees, with those employees taking salaries of $1 in 2009 in exchange for their retention bonus packages. “The fact that AIG engaged in this negotiation flies in the face of AIG’s assertion that it had no choice but to make these lavish multimillion dollar bonus payments,” Mr. Cuomo said. “It appears that AIG had far more leverage than they now claim.” So these clowns knew they were grossly overpaid and decided to go for the “retention package” instead of salaries. Then 11 of them left the firm anyway after getting paid.
purealpha Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If your firm has become the govies biatch then > your bonus will be 100% taxed by the govies. > > That idea makes a lot of sense and I like it, a > lot. Hit everyone who got bonuses on date > date > handout deal was estabilished. Hit everyone, not > just AIG, agencies too, and hit them hard. Our > government needs that money, bad. What if you’re British, work for a British affiliate and don’t have to pay US taxes?
You cannot have capitalism and free markets (which I wholeheartedly support BTW) when you have people with enormous power who do not play by the rules, who cheat/steal/lie in ways that destroy the market system for the rest of us.
sublimity Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You cannot have capitalism and free markets (which > I wholeheartedly support BTW) when you have people > with enormous power who do not play by the rules, > who cheat/steal/lie in ways that destroy the > market system for the rest of us. Exactly! Which is why the Government, which usually Knows What’s Best, and never produces Unintended Consequences, should step in and void these contracts!
ahahah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What if you’re British, work for a British > affiliate and don’t have to pay US taxes? They should have to come live in the USA as punishment.
I don’t think AIG is free to guess which contracts it has to honor and which ones it can just break because it feels like it’s good PR. I suspect that AIG saw that these were contractually mandated, and therefore figured that they could be paid without a problem. And they probably liked the idea of paying them so didn’t think through the consequences. However, AIG is presumably not free to break these contracts without the US Government’s explicit license to do so, and if these contracts were to foreign nationals, even the US Government might not be free to do it without a major incident. So placing ALL of the blame at AIG’s door is not really fair. That said, it is clear that a smart thing for AIG to do would have been to go to the government and say, “We have a problem,” we are contractually obliged to pay these bonuses, and it’s clearly not going to look good if we do it, yet we may be sued for amounts costing more than $165M if we don’t do it, plus generate tons of ill will and make it difficult to attract human capital to get out of this mess. Can you help us work out a compromise or a legal way out." Not having done that fuels the idea that it’s the rich stealing from the poor, and that ends up helping no one.
IF these employees get these bonuses it will be horrible for recovery. Americans need at least the illusion that the markets aren’t in fact rigged.
Does anyone have hard facts or know where I can find out on whether these bonuses were paid to those employees and business unit(s) that had a positive bottom line impact on AIG last year? I’ve heard the media use phrase like “the same group that caused the financial crisis got paid 165mm”. I mean, did AIG seriously award the same group that lost them billions simply because it was in their contract?? I’m just trying to understand how much these people (ones who received part of the $165M bonuses) are to blame, if at all, about the current state of AIG and the possibly the economy. Or if the media is making them out to be villains, even though they had a positive bottom line impact on AIG last year, only because of what it would look like to mainstreet.
I like the idea of taxing 90% of the bonus money through legislation. It’ll be very satisfying to see the a$$h0!es at AIGFPC feel the loot slip out of their hands. It looks like Cuomo is also on a good mission here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/business/19cuomo.html.
If you have trouble with the link, remove the period at the end. Try this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/business/19cuomo.html
Why do you guys see any problems with the bonuses? The more the market pays, the more other companies will pay. So given we (well, most of us at this forum) work in investment-related businesses, we are better off if market participants pay good bonuses.
NakedPuts Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > thepinkman Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I don’t understand why anybody would not be > > outraged by the bonus payouts. I could give a > > dman for precedent. Don’t let them get those > > bonuses. I don’t care how. > > That’s some dangerous thinking. > > I don’t want people thinking I’m okay with this - > the more I read about it, the more flagrant it > becomes. However, at no point will this justify > “mob justice”. Finally I see someone on here with some freaking sense! This is just mob rule. I can’t imagine how many people would be cheering if we had the guilletein in times square chopping of the heads of the heads (no pun intented) of AIG. I simply am astounded that people have this kind of thinking and are on the AF!
to be honest, i kind of feel bad for liddy… hes getting a little bit of a bad rep…
Some of the employees have reportedly given back their bonuses. How many of you would give them back? I would hang onto it (and collect interest) until I was legislated or taxed out of it.
XSellSide Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Some of the employees have reportedly given back > their bonuses. How many of you would give them > back? I would hang onto it (and collect interest) > until I was legislated or taxed out of it. I am not sure why they would give the money back voluntarily . I am still puzzled personally. There is no way that they did that for the good of the “country” or whatever. These are not teachers, or firefighters to take one for the country, these are parasites who have made their living sucking money anyway they can.
I would wager biscuits to bunions the people who gave them back did so out of fear for personal safety. I sure as hell wouldn’t. They were contracted. They should have been thrown out when the bailout arrived, but weren’t. That’s the government’s fault. Part of what we’re bailing out is employees and their salaries.
NakedPuts Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I would wager biscuits to bunions the people who > gave them back did so out of fear for personal > safety. I sure as hell wouldn’t. They were > contracted. They should have been thrown out when > the bailout arrived, but weren’t. That’s the > government’s fault. Part of what we’re bailing > out is employees and their salaries. i think you’re right… apparently a lot of them have been getting death threats… what a mess.
CFABLACKBELT Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > NakedPuts Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > thepinkman Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > I don’t understand why anybody would not be > > > outraged by the bonus payouts. I could give > a > > > dman for precedent. Don’t let them get those > > > bonuses. I don’t care how. > > > > That’s some dangerous thinking. > > > > I don’t want people thinking I’m okay with this > - > > the more I read about it, the more flagrant it > > becomes. However, at no point will this > justify > > “mob justice”. > > > Finally I see someone on here with some freaking > sense! This is just mob rule. I can’t imagine > how many people would be cheering if we had the > guilletein in times square chopping of the heads > of the heads (no pun intented) of AIG. > > I simply am astounded that people have this kind > of thinking and are on the AF! The thing is that the country is filled with irrational people such as myself. Right now for me the number #1 issue in this country are AIG bonuses. I know its small pototoes but I don’t care. And tons of people feel the same way I do. They better give it back or there’ll be hell to pay. I already bought a pitchfork and torch.
“mob justice” is justified when the “mob” is who you are stealing from