My point was that it won’t stop these ideologies from spreading. Has it worked so far?
china did not declare war. they will most likely just sit on the sideline like they always do
The early withdrawal of troops was a grave mistake It would be a lot better to have troops over there building bridges and hospitals by now rather than having to go back and cleanup a mess that could have possibly been prevented. These people have no hope and they are looking for a means to survive, if ISIS is the one providing that means then they will surely remain in control. If we can do better than the hearts and minds will sway.
Why should American lives be lost and American taxpayer dollars be spent there? Don’t try some bullship cop out answer either like: “If you don’t know, I can’t explain it to you.” In all seriousness, why do you, Palantir, believe that any more US soldiers should lose their lives there and why more of my and your tax dollars should be spent there? I’m not trying to argue with anyone here. I honestly want to know why people are advocating for a position. Pretend you’re on the Harvard debate team and it’s your turn.
supporting Assad is the only reasonable choice. the West needs to admit that the calculus has changed from 2012 and that Assad is the best of the two options. yes, he’s a war criminal and gassing people is unacceptable but the numbers affected by his war crimes are limited and rather humane compared to ISIS’s actions. plus Assad likely won’t attack us on our own soil whereas clearly ISIS will. it’s immature for Western leaders not admit they were wrong, side with Russia for once and to continue alienating Assad when he is the only option. maybe Assad would actually be reasonable if he had the support of global leaders in the fight against ISIS. a stretch but not an impossibility. he gets his country back. perhaps Putin would be more malleable wrt to Ukraine if the West works with him in Syria. continuing to oppose your “enemies” for opposition sake is insane.
EDIT: if the U.S. is serious about avoiding nuclear apocalypse, this is probably the easiest way to build a relationship with Russia and perhaps build close enough ties to avoid U.S.-Russia nuclear war and work together to avoid rogue states from acquiring bombs.
ISIS was pretty clear that they intend to take back Spain, which was lost to the Christians 500 years ago. I believe they also said they plan to raise the ISIS flag above the White House and European capitals.
Unless they are likely to disappear in a burst of internecine fighting (which doesn’t look imminent right now), leaving them alone is not likely to remedy the situation, so we can take that option off the table.
There will always be crazy people in the world who want to kill others who do not share their beliefs. It does not mean you stop fighting them. Are you sure your argument is not isolationism? Because I’m not seeing any solutions coming from you.
It worked for Chamberlain right? Oh… Wait a second…
I actually have a lot of friends that agree with you. He is gassing and bombing a lot of terrorists or “would be terrorists” and the people there do not care enough to take him out of power even with the means that we have provided them. This is not my view though, I think that as long as we have the power to stop people from doing evil things then we have the obligation to do so.
more american lives and money? 10 years, +6700 american lives, +$2 trillion is not enough?
early withdrawl was a grave mistake? the experts of military strategy and general himself speaks.
I assume you did not read the part where I said we need the collaboration of other nations? I don’t think we can rule out boots on the ground. If we sit back and wait for someone else to lead the fight then we may be sitting until the next building blows up in NY or stadium gets bombed in Europe. Hope your not sitting in it. I don’t claim to be an expert but I do study, listen, and admire what the great military leaders of our time have to say.
Sure it can be a remedy, Russia and Iran alone can crush ISIS. US involvement is not required. I suspect part of the crowd that wants US involvement is simply jealous that Putin is getting the attention and just can’t digest Obama’s goal of leading from behind…
Sure there are, I believe I explained my solution on the previous page. TL:DR : Support neither Assad nor send in ground troops, but send in SF trainers and advisors and develop indigenous capacity. Will take years.
The answer to your question is simple - Because it serves American interests. If it serves American interests, then being in the ME is justified. The question you should be asking is - what are our interests in the ME? (No, it is not just oil).
We have tried this in multiple parts of the middles east most recent failure was Syria. This would be the ideal route to take but time again it fails. Just take a minute and google how much money we have wasted on this in Iraq and Syria. These fighters are either cowards who lack the will to fight or are aiding the terrorists.
We haven’t failed with this strategy in Syria. We’ve barely dipped our toes into it. The failure you cite is one instance, not a strategy, which I noted will take years to fully realize. Btw, I think it’s odd you mention this particular failure but ignore the success the US has had with developing Kurdish forces. Why is that?
Why don’t you give me a few examples of where “boots on the ground” with no solution for what comes after was successful in eliminating Islamic terror groups?
Barely dipped our toes? Half a billion dollars? What about the billions of training dollars wasted on foreign forces across the middle east. The Kurds are the rare case where the training has had success.
The problem is the division among many of these ethnic groups and we have not done very well in uniting them.
I do agree that training foreign fighters is an important part of the equation but the current methods have been shotty and meanwhile ISIS is gaining more armaments at every setback. There would undoubtedly be more success if they had coalition forces in the fight.
There may always be Islamic terror groups but eliminating their hold on the region is one key way to stomp out the spread of their ideology and recruitment efforts. The only long standing change will come with political process.
Did you think this was going to be cheap? I’m not that bothered by the failure because these things take time to develop in terms of understanding whom you need to train and how. This is a country that the U.S. Doesn’t understand and it’s miles better than training future mujahideen like in Afghanistan, which is exactly the reason for their hesitation.
Any answer for my question? A few examples please.
its already not cheap and what you are proposing is not cheap either as I have cited. Your not bothered by the government squandering billions of dollars, failing multiple times, and in many cases actually making matters worse?
What i am talking about is what we have done in many conflicts. Take out the bad guys, help rebuid, install a democracy or form of government that suits our interest i.e. Keep the bad guys from recruiting and spreading like the cancer they are. Im saying that it requires boots on the ground and you are saying it does not. I think you are wrong and so do many military leaders which I could continue to cite as I have previously in this thread.
Are you really asking when was the last time we did this exact same thing in this exact situation and it worked? There are a lot of examples of times where we have fostered change in a region and it has worked and a lot of instances where it has not. It will not work without follow through and that means sticking around until the job is done. I agree that there is no point in going in without an end game but the end game can change because the enemy gets to make a choice and neither you or I can predict exactly what it will take or how long but it will take more than just one country’s involvement and a change in politics.
I dont admit to having all of the answers but I have posted a lot of support for my argument. All i hear from you is status quo. News flash- its not working so keep holding out for things to work themselves out. Heck maybe Putin will take out ISIS with his BSD and save us the trouble.
I think what we need to do is to continue with our everyday business and not let these guys stop us.
I think what we need to do is to embrace our Islam/Muslim friends and not let this generate hate in any of us towards the Muslim community
And only when we stand as one regardless of religion, yes including the good Muslims, will these pathetic crooks be defeated
I personally feel like they aren’t doing it for the religion. They’re doing it in the name of the religion.
In actual fact they are just sick people who enjoys watching people get tortured, be upset and all
Bandits, crooks, gangstaaaaaaaa