This is in no way meant to be disrespectful, but I think this situation would make an interesting, albeit depressing, movie focusing on how a person’s suicide affects a community of people who, with a few exceptions, only knew him online.
STL you described depression to a T at the end of your post
Maybe that’s why it bothers me. I’ve never had any experience with depression.
Edit: I’ve never been depressed. I’m sure we all know plenty of people on Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, Lexapro, etc.
Thanks. That’s actually a helpful alternate perspective. I think I saw very eye to eye with him when I read is letter maybe partly given the circumstances under which I read it (looking for an explanation). Whereas some of these perspectives have added a little more practical perspective to it. Which also fits each of the personalities involved (Bchad being himself and you and Ohai slightly more practical).
I think my own background in the area may have also played a factor in my interpretation.
It’s actually a pretty straightforward point that I am making. Depressed people can construct logical arguments and rationalize their actions of self-harm, which doesn’t mean they are in a “clear state of mind.” They can put a facade and act normal to hide their state from their closest ones, because of the associated stigma or other reasons, leaving their depression undiagnosed. In these scenarios where you didn’t suspect that a close friend or relative suffered from depression, their unexpected suicide provides a strong, albeit inconclusive, evidence that they might have. It might be a good idea to accept that possibility and talk openly about it rather than remain in some state of denial, in order to lift the stigma associated with depression as some mental illness and encourage others who suffer to seek help.
The way I see it, that’s kind of what I am saying to which you are responding with “He wasn’t depressed! I talked to him in person!”
I’m just going to leave it at saying I disagree and that those closest to him over that period appear to disagree as well. So while it’s *possible* I would view that probability in the minority. Certainly enough so that my initial point stands that it is simplistic to make that diagnosis outright.
I just read his note. It sounds like (in my opinion) he was suffering from some kind of depression based on the nature of his letter and especially the feeling of hopelessness and that he couldn’t see a way out. The real sad part is that it appears he let his depression go on for years and did not get any help. One of the warning signs of suicide with depression is a sudden switch from being very sad to being very calm or appearing to be happy. I think this was bchad in his final months. I am upset and very sad because mental illness (depression is a mental illness) can be successfully overcome.
i think it comes down to an inability to step outside of your own life circumstances and witness your life and choices in an objective manner so you can use your gifts to work on getting out of an undesirable situation (or more importantly, mindset). some people can step back, look at themselves and say “why the fuck am i doing X if i want Y and X clearly doesn’t help me get there, or impedes me from getting there”.
who knows why some appear able to and some don’t. I think he was stuck in his own perception which led him to a logical conclusion within the confines of his perception. i guess that’s stating the obvious, but in any case i don’t think it’s fair to judge others who don’t appear to have this ability. maybe it’s a genetic lottery thing, maybe it’s ingrained early in childhood, who knows.
This is a rather myopic and close-minded view.
There are ample other scenarios, for example : you get an incurable disease that is not terminal but tips your quality of life against you so much that it is not worthwhile to carry on. FTR, this is what Robin Williams had, his wife said as much but his depression was a much bigger selling point so people tend to run with that.
Bchads letter was clear, eloquent and thought out. Whether there were other medical factors or not influencing it is not clear (probably, yes) but with what we know for certain we can give him the respect he deserves by assuming he was did what he did in a lucid frame of mind. He also alluded to visiting therapists in several of his posts and it is not clear how much help he actually sought so the same self-righteousness is visible in your posts by haughtily claiming - " He could’ve always done more".
As for being a selfish act, this is a slippery slope to defend but many suicidal people tend to chug along because they realize the impact it will have on their loved ones until they reach a point where it is no longer feasible making some of them extraordinarily self-less and brave to push so far.
Lastly, he had no people depending on him and the one person whose life was entwined with his he clearly addressed. It seems to me that in his scenario it was completely acceptable even though it is a shame he could not see his own value when the outpouring of tributes show otherwise.
as a deist living in a world with over 7 billion people, i can understand why he may have felt a lack of meaning or accomplishment in his life, particularly at age 48. as someone who is almost two decades his junior, i’d have difficulty telling you what the meaning of my life is beyond raising my kids in hopes that one day they are blessed with the ability to figure it out. everything i do outside of raising my kids is just part of a game that doesn’t really matter much. i guess the few things i do to serve other people has some importance but it doesn’t provide enough meaning on its own to justify living. i’m fairly certain i’d never opt out but i’m also fairly certain this is 100% due to people relying on me directly for many things. this reliance = meaning.
i feel like i can understand after losing one best friend (aged 31), one close colleague (aged 61) and bchad (aged 48) within two years, all for very different reasons, apparently. without many close connections, and being so detached from each other in a world where our voices aren’t as loud as they used to be, it’s understandable how the 235,632,234th most valuable ant on the planet may feel like his life isn’t worth much. sad but i don’t think depression = suicide. i think that’s simply a convenient way to think about it and way to keep living without suicide effecting our viewpoint or mental well-being. suicide prevention should be just that. help people to see how they matter to people and how they make a difference in the world. this is very different from depression prevention or detection.
bchad*
Agree there’s no reason to assume he was depressed. It’s a bit of a cliche, people always jump to that conclusion.
We read the same letter, I thought it was wonderful. Bchad was a fabulous writer, it would have drove me crazy wondering, if he hadn’t told us. So he quite methodically addressed every single path out, and let us know why he dismissed that option; too old to retool, married to the West, didn’t want to ask for charity, etc. Yet still I’m like you, in that I can’t make sense of it. To me, he did not exhaust available options, he simply said “I do not want to do those”, marked them off his list, leaving him with the option he took.
As you say we could have helped him, and it sucks he didn’t ask. Around August when he mentioned about not having a job I thought for awhile about how great he would fit with consulting jobs I do for rich “think tank” geeks (very PHD type stuff). I had figured out who he was on Linkedin over the years, and considered reaching out. But we did not have a new project lined up yet, and honestly Americans can be standoffish and bite you for being friendly, so I dismissed the idea.
Hey, I went back and found Bchad posts from 2007, when he was taking L3. That was around when JDV left (another legendary poster), and Bchad kinda became our new JDV. It’s been 10yrs of reading awesome Bchad thoughts each morning with my coffee.
thats pretty low… even for you
Sometimes the stars align just right and you can’t pass up an opportunity. You’ll be alright.
The sentence that stood our to me was his unwillingness to beg for work, or something like that. I felt under the umbrella of logic, that was a bad behavior he concluded to be correct. It suggested to me he wasn’t being as rational as he wanted to portray
Robin Williams’ suicide was due to Lewy body dementia.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/03/robin-williams-disintegrating-before-suicide-widow-says
Don’t use his suicide to reach conclusions about others.
I could use any number of examples. How about Kurt Cobain? Mitch Hedberg, Chris Farley, John Bulushi, Greg Giraldo…all were tortured souls that died young due to depression or other inner demons.
Don’t nitpick.
The bolded names are all considered accidental drug accidents without indication of being intentional. If we’re lumping that together, might as well start including race car drivers, base jumpers, whitewater kayakers… anyone with an ill advised high risk extra curricular.
The lone remainder is Cobain. It’s hard to consider his legacy tarnished against the fact that twenty some years after a brief stint in a great rock band, nearly every American knows who he is and considers him a legend. On the other hand, if I say the name Anthony Kiedis while known carries a lot less recognition despite a longer, stronger selling career.