I never debated Kurt and Belushi wasn’t part of the discussion.
So now we’re at Farley, most of which is headline grabbing conjecture. Again, if you have concrete evidence or instance of clinical depression or mental illness, feel free to point them out.
Hedberg never “knew he was going to die”, someone took a quote out of I’d like to get famous first out of context. A week before his death he’s talking about how he’s got his drug habits under control. Geraldo had a history of chemical addiction. Most notably he campaigned against chemical addiction (not depression) and celebrated his own battle towards sobriety (5/25).
Anyhow instead of making grand vague statements of opinion as fact or referring to podcasts how about offering concrete evidence. For the last few posts you’ve just been going round and round with these empty statements without offering hard evidence of clinical depression because you know, there isn’t any. Your response as always is just to either bring in more names to the discussion or keep repeating “they were depressed”. At this point I’ll just start repeating myself as responses until you offer hard evidence.
There is no hard line on whether someone is depressed or not. There are multiple different types of depressive disorders with different symptoms. Whether or not somebody is in their “right mind” if not a clear call either. These things are not black and white, unless you are suggesting psychotic depression, which I don’t think anyone is (hallucinations, delusions, paranoia). Here are symptoms of Major Depression:
Persistent sad, anxious, or “empty” mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by subjective report or observation of others (e.g., appears tearful). In children and adolescents, this may be characterized as an irritable mood.
Feelings of hopelessness, pessimism
Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, helplessness
Loss of interest or pleasure in hobbies and activities that were once enjoyed, including sex
Decreased energy, fatigue, being “slowed down”
Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions
Trouble sleeping, early-morning awakening, or oversleeping
A few reasons: I have better things to do than look up old podcasts or point you towards some informative documentaries. You clearly don’t know much about these guys so if you’re really interested I’d encourage you to take the time to look into it further. And, your ultimately arguing semantics and I don’t really give a fuck. No matter what I cite, unless there’s a direct quote from their actual psychiatrists saying they were diagnosed with depression you’ll just come back saying it was circumstantial and not “clinical.” It’s a bullshit stance and you’ll never concede that you lack the information necessary to continue this discussion.
Again, I encourage you to do some research on not just those guys, but entertainers/comedians and depression. It’s a fascinating subject and, sadly, it often leads to untimely deaths that were perpetrated by intentional self-destructive behavior.
Here’s a very general article on comedians and depression. Some make it out okay, others don’t. But taking the stance these guys didn’t suffer from depression doesn’t really make any sense. It’s like your trolling and don’t even know it.
I’ve actually read two of their biographies so there goes that allegation. So you admit you’re just fueling a narrative with empty points. Thanks, glad that’s settled.
Nice editorial that also repeats the same vague statements while citing two comedians to justify painting with a broad brush. I mean that’s like me sitting here saying Will Ferrell and Eddie Murphy don’t struggle with depression so no comedians must have depression.
^What narrative am I fueling? You’re obsessed with being so precise that you’re missing the bigger picture. These guys were depressed. They self-destructed and died early. As far as I can tell, your basing your stance on clinical proof they were depressed and the coroner’s report listing the official causes of death.
If we could at least agree these guys suffered from depression and/or other mental issues, I could understand debating whether or not an accidental overdose is the same as suicide. You appear to think they had no intention of dying. I disagree and believe they had every intention of dying. That’s suicide in my book.
I forgot about Owen Wilson until I read that article. I guess slitting your wrists is just a shaving mishap.
Saw the news before the New Year but didn’t get to read the letter until a few days ago. A thoughtful and talented individual who was clearly unhappy and dissatisfied with his life, whatever the technical diagnosis.
We all have our own path to walk. It is sad that he chose this path, when so many were available to him
being self-destructive and being depressed are separate. yes, often depressed people make self-destructive choices but not always. we are all self-destructive to an extent. i understand BS’s stance. we cannot deduce with 100% certainty that they were depressed, or not, as depression is an internal struggle, as we know. behaviours are the best indication of mental illness but not everyone who kills themselves is depressed and not everyone who is self-destructive is depressed. i believe one can make a rational decision to kills themself. while not related, look at samurai culture. once suicide is acceptable, or at least commonplace, it self-perpetuates. this may be why celebrities have a problem with this. self-destruction and accidental ODs are commonplace in celebrity culture and often the deceased is idolized providing strange incentives that normal people don’t experience. hell, elvis died on a toilet and he’s still as much a legend today as he was several decades ago. that’s why suicide rates are often labeled as epidemics. they’re contagious. the more we see it, the more we are inclined to do it, whether it be because of depression or lack of meaning or both or whatever it may be.
I was just thinking an ad hominem attack was the only thing missing to completely validate my point and round out your flailing attempts at rationalization.
No, seriously. It’s impossible to go back and forth with you for more than four posts because you live in your own world where you’re the expert on everything. It’s ironic this conversation is happening in this thread because bchad was one of the best as continuing a rational discussion. Once you put your foot in the ground, you become a mix between a 12-year old girl and Rain Man. That’s not a personal attack. That’s years of observation and interaction.
I don’t really know what the argument is any more. Clearly bchad was depressed (to argue that he was not, based on some medical definition kind of misses the point; recognizing someone’s mental distress should have the goal of providing aid, which we and others clearly failed at), and he made some sub optimal (I would call them non rational) life choices over the years that led to his desperate situation. Even if his letter seemed lucid, he was not in a good mental state; the claim that he did this due to financial reasons was either a delusion or a lie, even if that was a factor in his feeling of worthlessness and hopelessness. Plus, even if his “close” friends did not see him as unhappy - guess what: they just didn’t know him as well as they thought they did.
I also agree that the argument has gone beyond reason and is now more about ego and stubbornness, maybe even on my part. Someone could have helped our friend in his time of need, in a way that did not amount to charity. It was a highly regrettable situation that was not a result of carefully evaluating one’s choices. I’m at least certain of that.
You both have the right to debate but please recognize that this thread was set up to honour the late bchad. While it is typical for AF threads to take large tangents I ask that you respect the purpose of this thread before posting further arguments.
This is also typical at many wakes and post-funeral receptions I’ve attended, especially those with Irish or Scottish blood. Fighting is cathartic. But, point taken.
You know, I thought about this exact example when posting earlier. in my circles they are more somber affairs of memorial, and un-pleasantries are left for another day. Like temporary truces.
I’m sure over the years we will come back to this thread as a place of remembrance for our beloved bchad, and the less unsavouriness we revisit then, the better.
But this is basically just, “anyone who does this MUST have been depressed, even if there is zero evidence for this conclusion (which is the case) you just didn’t look hard enough”. Depression is a blanket term Westerners toss on everything, which tells us basically nothing of value, because it is not an analysis of root cause.
Bchad already told us root cause: income inequality means begging for scraps which he doesn’t do, no real demand for his personality type, no parents left, no wife and kids, etc. There’s no point in ignoring the specifics which are available, in favor of vague “must be depressed”.