Because when I mentioned respectfully debating policies were the best way to engage the opposing base constructively (looking towards the next election) you shrugged it off for some future date, talked about what’s important to you and the lib base (which coincidentally hasn’t changed), at which point the left is just talking to itself and in turn describing the last election. As they say, insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Hence:
This really shouldn’t be so hard, but to some I guess it is. So I told you the same thing I told crybaby conservatives in 2011, “Hyperbole aside you just described the last election. Good luck, hope it works out for you!” But of course, every pity party thinks they’re unique so I’m sure it’s wasted words.
The sheer volume and frequency of Quack Swan’s posting says he cares way more about this than literally anyone else on AF and he needs a hobby. Happy pwning!
I mean, both of these figures were compiled using pricing hard assets as opposed to cash flows and intangibles, going to Enron is the debate equivalent of screaming Hitler (automatic 10 point deduction).
Personally, I think the 2020 election is about far more than policy. I was born in 1973. I’ve never been as worried about my country and the world as I am now. I want a president who cares about truth, respects the rule of law, promotes equality and human rights, and supports the free press. Those are some core concepts that are important to me. There are others. I feel Trump and his enablers put those core concepts at risk in a way I’ve never experienced in my lifetime.
Note that none of those things have much, if anything, to do with policy: they are all part of the basic foundation of our system of government and values. In my mind, supporting those concepts is “conservative,” in the true sense of that word.
Right, but you’re someone that didn’t vote for Trump. Hence my overall point. Liberals keep doing this thing of basically talking to themselves about what they value (like conservatives did in 2011) and both sides were/will be shocked to get the same result I’m sure.
Edit: To your question, I don’t vote, so I don’t have a strong opinion on the matter of what’s best. I just know that ultimately most people are pushing for the policies they want so that’s where the conversation needs to be. Ultimately it doesn’t matter if the leader is a sleaze, most people just want the policy result. Bush Jr seemed nice and sincere enough but I’d rather not have had those wars.
My question wasn’t about what’s best or about any policy. I asked what’s important to you in our system of government. I listed a few things that are important to me - such as respect for truth, equality, and the rule of law - and in my mind they have nothing to do with any political party. Rather, they are part of the foundation of our country’s values, and I think they are very important. I also think they are in danger like they’ve never been in my lifetime.
k, fine, Valeant. VRX is a better example anyway. debt fueled acquisition spree, overpaying along the way and barely cash flow positive without extorting sick and dying people.
I get that and I addressed your idea about these notions above (ie, I look at policies not intentions since the worst mistakes have been committed with the best of intentions i.e. Bush’s invasion and Obama’s doubling the US debt load). I don’t think Trump’s policies are great (some are good, some are bad), I just made a broad point which you keep missing. For instance, you’re engaging with me like you’re going to change my mind on Trump despite the fact that I didn’t vote at all. If I liked him (or either candidate) I would have voted. The reason I didn’t vote is because I think people with these naive ideas of Mr. Smith goes to Washington are living in a fiction that never existed and when you peel back the layers of the hyperbole you largely wind up with a bunch of manufactured left wing hysteria over a presidency that is only superficially different from anything we’ve had.
So look, two third party organizations have come up with their best independent estimates both straddling $3B. It may not have been the most rigorous, but at this stage, the burden of proof is on the naysayers.
my point is that basically hundreds of independent people thought something like VRX was worth a bazillion dollars when it is was actually worth 1/10 of that value in hindsight, and who knows where that story goes a few years from now. and that bazillion dollar estimation was hundreds of professional analysts using publicly available information. with trump, we don’t even have information so how can we trust any estimate? he could have an outstanding lien for $10 billion against the $3 billion estimates. who knows.
Yeah, but to my first point, that was based on intangible assets and cash flows vs real marketable physical assets. Different game you’re trying to play, but nice try.
If you use that approach then nobody ever really knows what anybody is worth and the whole thing becomes stupid semantics.
The whole topic is largely irrelevant to anybody outside of the liberal try hards.
If you want to make a concrete case for a different valuation, then make it. Otherwise this is just pie in the sky conjecture and I’m getting bored.
I disagree. Donald Trump is drastically different from any president we’ve had for decades, in that I think he misunderstands and misinterprets foundational American values. As I’ve said in this thread and elsewhere, you are free to disagree.
Enron’s report for 2000. That’s actually a nice exercise. Seeing what happened to failed companies.
lastly I wouldn’t call market cap net worth. Net worth is more like shareholders equity. Market cap is more like if someone paid for all of my future income right now.
Enron had a market cap of 65b at peak. They had about the same amount in assets. And about 55b in debt. So a net worth of 10b. And that’s just as reported not even including their shenanigans.
it traded at a 55 earning multiple and a 6 times its net worth.
On October 16, 2001, Enron announced that restatements to its financial statements for years 1997 to 2000 were necessary to correct accounting violations. The restatements for the period reduced earnings by $613 million (or 23% of reported profits during the period), increased liabilities at the end of 2000 by $628 million (6% of reported liabilities and 5.5% of reported equity), and reduced equity at the end of 2000 by $1.2 billion (10% of reported equity).[27]
these restatements caused the panic. Most of the restatements were due to the mark to market assumptions. But trust was lost. They then got downgraded. And they had a ton of debt that they had to payoff. Then people stopped dealing with them cuz they were afraid of a collapse. There was suppose to be a buyout for the co. But they got scared of the debt. They did more restatements cuz of the spv crap. They started selling assets on the cheap to pay debt. Then the co that was suppose to merge was like nah nah nah ur only worth 4b not 8b you lying sleuth. Then they were downgraded to junk. And the people who were suppose to merge were like haha well fuck that. Good luck. So in the end they filed for bankruptcy! Not enough assets to cover the debt. So even the lenders got fucked. Some lender were ok since their loans were tied to the assets. So the people with the lowest seniority got super fucked.
LOL, yes! We get that, but you’re just aimlessly repeating yourself like a rambling bot. You are right, you’ve said this countless times but to my point (which apparently does not compute) is that the other half does not agree, you’re not addressing their obviously different point of view on policies so you’re basically just talking to yourself, which amounts to whining about the election. The left is so firmly self absorbed that even when you point that out and they acknowledge it, they then just continue to drone on about how Trump doesn’t fit their value system which everybody already realizes. The best part is even after I pointed it out, two posts later you’re literally back to droning on about your opinion, yes we get it liberals hate Trump. Good luck on your journey to convince exactly the same people to not vote for him that didn’t the first time, I’m sure the exercise will be rewarding!
america doesnt care about policies. we need a scandal. like a trump golden shower or something. actaully teflon don will prolly survive that. r kelly is a belieber
Lol, you replied to my comment 2 minutes after it was posted and have posted like a dozen times since in this thread. You care more than anyone and are so deep in self-denial you don’t even see it
