For a second when I saw Ohai’s post last night when I was on chill mode after a workout, I had a bizarre “Trading Places” experience where I felt like I was him watching me post crazy things. It was weird.
That was going to be my next question. See, to me in the US, moderate means having a balanced view from all sides. If you’re Muslim apparently, that means not advocating Islamic nationalism in foreign states, proposing jihad against infidels, levying a jizya, etc. Interesting. This may actually be the most concerning point made in this thread and I believe says more about Muslims and the world’s view of them than anything I’ve written. We’ll agree to disagree on his “moderate” status then.
^This has nothing to do with the US or what moderation means in the US.
Ok, so ignore that for a second and look at the statement.
That was going to be my next question. If you’re Muslim apparently, moderate that means not advocating Islamic nationalism in foreign states, proposing jihad against infidels, levying a jizya, etc. Interesting. This may actually be the most concerning point made in this thread and I believe says more about Muslims and the world’s view of them than anything I’ve written. We’ll agree to disagree on his “moderate” status then.
Basically, chopping someone’s head off for apostasy or stoning someone for adultry or homosexuality is moderate. Not allowing women to drive, rent apartments, etc is moderate.
Not to mention, perpetuating a one sided view of conflicts in which the Sunni are always right and the Shia are always wrong is not moderate in my view in that it extends a conflict that has raged for hundreds of years. If you take a different view, that’s fine, I’m just saying I view him as a talking mouthpiece at this point.
Admittedly, I was being glib, but overall I don’t think it is concerning. Point is, advocating for Sunni Arab interests doesn’t make you an extremist, but believing in and practicing the extreme parts of Islamic law and advocating for islamic nationalism abroad does.
That’s not what I said, has the poster in question advocated stoning or beheading for adultery?
He clearly defended the institutionalism of Sharia law.
Yea I am glad I stopped using the word as an insult even if in jest. It is similar to when everyone (myself included) used the word gay as an insult and its pretty sad to use the way someone is to insult another. Its putting yourself on a pedestal while stepping on someone else. I understand how people mean it when they say it, there are just better ways to articulate it that dont step on toes.
link please? I can’t be bothered to search.
- On Sharia: actually Sharia is mostly the same as in the Bible and the Torah. It’s less strict than the Torah and the Old Testaments and stricter than the New Testaments. So either you attack all or none. Don’t take one in isolation of the others; like when referring to others you just safely say “all are sh*t”. Why no one talked about the young American girl who got spat on in a Community in Israel for not wearing “proper clothes”? or report on forcing women to ride at the back of the bus in the same Communities? You know you can’t.
That combined with the pro KSA view sum it up pretty well.
Also, I’m not saying he’s an extremist. I’m saying he’s not moderate. I don’t view it as a one or the other sort of thing. I’m just saying that as the Muslims I met in Egypt and Kuwait went, he’s not moderate although I’m definitely not trying say he’s an extremist.
Black Swan - do you consider yourself a moderate? Maybe you are just trolling here for kicks, but if you believe what you type then by any reasonable definition your views are far from moderate (about Islam at least).
Damn, that was good. You should have stopped there. Got a bit tasteless after, but that pretty classic.
Aside from that, this thread has gone retardedly gay.
A few points:
- There is still no moderate muslims.Yes my parents living in the U.S are considered “Moderate Muslims” but actually by the standards set in Islam they are not muslims.Remember being a muslim you have to be ok with chopping someones hand off for stealing,killing homosexuals by throwing them off a tall building , punishing alcohol consumption by whipping someone or being ok with marrying a girl who is above 9.Since people like my parents don’t believe in that shit they are considered “moderate muslims” but isn’t that like saying a GS banker believes in communism? You can say what yoy want but according to Islam you are not a muslim if you don’t believe in these rules.Those who consider themselves moderates are basically following an updated version of Islam, now my argument to these guys is if Islam was truly the work of god(any religion following this notion) why would you change it ? Isn’t the work of god supposed to be perfect?
- On the underage thing: Dude ,speaking from a very simple point of view and putting aside all the emotional damage, do you really think having sex with a 10 year old girl will make her feel good ? Given the anatomy I seriously think it’s more like torture, now I am again putting away the emotional abuse cause you can claim it can be due to a cultural thing.How is a prophet of peace and love supposed to do this ? If you said having slaves or chopping the head of your enemy after a war,I would have agreed it was a cultural/historical thing but I seriously doubt "forcing yourself into a girl is going to be enjoyable for a 10 year old.
I actually hadn’t really thought about it, but I don’t think I’m moderate on the topic of Islam in the Middle East.
I definitely have taken a side in the debate, viewing it as having a significantly detrimental influence net-net. I think my view is accurate, taking into account the violence and human rights track records but I don’t think I’m neutral or treating all views on the subject as equal.
That doesn’t mean I dislike Muslims or Middle Easterners or even think the world needs to be involved, I just think Islam’s influence is for the worst and that’s something only the Middle East can address.
it’s very simple. Islam requires a reformation to be respected by non-Muslims. if "moderate muslims’ disassociate from the extremist part of the religion, all will be well. it is fairly tough when your prophet is a terrorist though.
this is the one issue where my incredibly PC mind bends. if you have a religion of hate, which islam is due to the prophet being a terrorist, it is unacceptable. tolerate everyone except those who do not tolerate others. that’s what a society is about. tolerance. if you don’t tolerate, leave.
i’m not sure how moderate muslims can call themselves muslims. and i am very close with a few. it’s a weird thing. they basically call themselves muslim for the cultural attachments (e.g. Ramadan, Eid, etc) but not for what the religion stands for (e.g. oppression of women, terrorism).
Yeah, alot of them pray, fast in ramadan and go to mecca but are opposed to killing homosexuals or chopping hands, let alone terror and such attacks.The problem is both groups think they are “muslims”.I do want to emphasize again that allying with KSA is only going to worsen the situation.
I wouldn’t be so sure there Audacious, I think you fit right in.
http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/new-normal-muslim-migrants-film-rape-of-male-teen/
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/boys-pleasure-sexual-abuse-children-betrays-isis-hypocrisy-1483322
One detail in Arango’s story, however, stands out: it is the reference to homosexual sex in an Isis training camp. “He [Barho] said he saw men having sex with other men behind the tents in the desert night.”
http://aclj.org/human-rights/fighting-the-sexual-abuse-of-young-afghani-boys-at-the-united-nations
Young boys are dressed up like women and forced to dance for older men. The boys are then auctioned off as sex slaves to the highest bidder – forced to endure years of rape, sexual abuse, and slavery at the hands of their masters.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48477#.VvQXtdsrJhE
“We are gravely concerned by continued reports of acts of violence, including sexual violence against women and teenage girls and boys belonging to Iraqi minorities”
This not a defense of institutionalizing Sharia. This is just an argument placing Islamic law in context with Jewish law, and his argument is fair. So no, I don’t think this sums it up well at all.
Institutionalizing Sharia is a different story, and even there there is a range of views on how it can be implemented, from moderate to ISIS.
W…t…F…
What is a moderate to you? If you are not an extremist (don’t support creation of Islamic states etc), and you are not a leftist (who renounces Islam in favor of total secularism), you are a moderate. I have a feeling you expect them to be Western liberals. (Who would not even be moderate in western societies).
Let me guess…your idea of moderate muslims is the YPJ?