Hi everyone, I’m looking for your input on my scenario, I appreciate any replies I get, even smartass ones (I know one of these type of threads pops up weekly 
) I would like to work as an equity analyst with a view to hopefully getting into portfolio management (who doesn’t) in the longterm. My background is this: I completed a quantitative undergrad degree (actuarial maths) back in 2005 but just attained a 2.2 (second class honours), that said I still managed to get exemptions from some of the Institute of Actuaries exams, it was a tough undergrad. After this I did a one year postgrad in computer science (more out of interest than anything else), this I scored very well in, coming top of my class. Then last Sept I got a job with a third party hedge fund administrator, we have a small team and prepare NAV’s and perform client service roles to a variety of small hedge funds which wouldn’t be considered large enough to be taken on by more well known/larger administrators. I started studying for the CFA exams a week or so after beginning work (I had never heard of CFA before my boss asked me if I was interested in pursuing a qualification, which my company would sponsor, I then found out about it through my own research). I passed CFA1 in Dec and CFA2 in June, I’m now working for number 3, which, given my track record and the time I have, I am somewhat confident of getting. My plan is to sit level 3, then start throwing a few CVs around London (I intend on moving there to get experience) with the hope of securing a job there to start in Sept/Oct. I have just turned 26. I am quite content in my job at present as I get study leave, get on with my workmates and work an unstressful 40 hour week. My current setup hopefully should allow me to pass level 3 without having to repeat. But without CFA to study for I would find this job rather boring and unchallenging. Do you think it’s a reasonable plan or will I, after having spent 2 years in back office, be forever branded as ‘back office material’ by potential employers?
I’m not sure why you would want to leave back office when you’re making $75,000 starting salary out of college.
Thats not what the guy wants to do - so why would he stay in the back office? I think you are on the right track man - keep plugging away and network like crazy. Be very very aggressive and I’m sure you’ll get where you want to go… Best of luck
Why would the firm sponsor you for CFA then keep you in the back office? Doesn’t make much sense that a firm would pay for something to increase the odds of a person leaving the firm. Maybe they’re going to open up a spot for you once your prove that you can pass 3.
kevin0118 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why would the firm sponsor you for CFA then keep > you in the back office? Doesn’t make much sense > that a firm would pay for something to increase > the odds of a person leaving the firm. > > Maybe they’re going to open up a spot for you once > your prove that you can pass 3. I work in the BO and half the people I work with have their CFA charters. The CFA is not a ticket to the FO. It just shows you understand what those in the FO are doing.
AM firms have no choice these days. If they don’t sponsor for CFA they can’t be competitive in the job market. And if they don’t sponsor people in back office they have a culture problem. No firm will last long if they don’t at least put a good faith effort into training their own employees and give them the prospect of moving up.
Did you guys even read his whole post? “Then last Sept I got a job with a third party hedge fund administrator…” This is not an asset manager firm, correct? There are no front office jobs at this firm, correct? Your resume is certainly much stronger for a BO job than a FO job, but that shouldn’t stop you. Find a guy who knows a guy. If that doesn’t work or isn’t possible, get a good BO job at an asset management firm. There you will find lots of guys who know guys.
> > I work in the BO and half the people I work with > have their CFA charters. The CFA is not a ticket > to the FO. It just shows you understand what > those in the FO are doing. How do they qualify for the Charter with back office experience which clearly does not count?
drs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I work in the BO and half the people I work > with > > have their CFA charters. The CFA is not a > ticket > > to the FO. It just shows you understand what > > those in the FO are doing. > > > How do they qualify for the Charter with back > office experience which clearly does not count? Some people have been grandfathered in. The requirements used to be less stringent. For instance there is a performance specialist in my office who has the charter. Today his experience would not count.
earl, you’re on the right track… just keep plugging away and don’t worry too much about the experience. What counts more is that you are able to show progress and movement in your roles in the BO (lots of FO people are from the BO) and commitment to learning, which you are by doing the CFA. But as the previous posters mentioned, don’t discount networking… it’s probably the best shot you have at getting in front of someone that matters. Best of luck
BugEyedEarl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi everyone, > I’m looking for your input on my scenario, I > appreciate any replies I get, even smartass ones > (I know one of these type of threads pops up > weekly ) > > I would like to work as an equity analyst with a > view to hopefully getting into portfolio > management (who doesn’t) in the longterm. > My background is this: > I completed a quantitative undergrad degree > (actuarial maths) back in 2005 but just attained a > 2.2 (second class honours), that said I still > managed to get exemptions from some of the > Institute of Actuaries exams, it was a tough > undergrad. > After this I did a one year postgrad in computer > science (more out of interest than anything else), > this I scored very well in, coming top of my > class. > Then last Sept I got a job with a third party > hedge fund administrator, we have a small team and > prepare NAV’s and perform client service roles to > a variety of small hedge funds which wouldn’t be > considered large enough to be taken on by more > well known/larger administrators. I started > studying for the CFA exams a week or so after > beginning work (I had never heard of CFA before my > boss asked me if I was interested in pursuing a > qualification, which my company would sponsor, I > then found out about it through my own research). > I passed CFA1 in Dec and CFA2 in June, I’m now > working for number 3, which, given my track record > and the time I have, I am somewhat confident of > getting. > My plan is to sit level 3, then start throwing a > few CVs around London (I intend on moving there to > get experience) with the hope of securing a job > there to start in Sept/Oct. > > I have just turned 26. > I am quite content in my job at present as I get > study leave, get on with my workmates and work an > unstressful 40 hour week. My current setup > hopefully should allow me to pass level 3 without > having to repeat. But without CFA to study for I > would find this job rather boring and > unchallenging. > > Do you think it’s a reasonable plan or will I, > after having spent 2 years in back office, be > forever branded as ‘back office material’ by > potential employers? absolutely do not wait until you have L3 to apply for jobs. do it NOW.
>This is not an asset manager firm, correct? There are no front office jobs at this firm, correct? Correct, this is an administration only company, mostly for mutuals, my team would be the most advanced in the company. >Why would the firm sponsor you for CFA then keep you in the back office? They wanted me to do ACCA exams but I pushed for CFA, they had never heard of it but let me go for it. >absolutely do not wait until you have L3 to apply for jobs. do it NOW. Please elaborate on why do you think this? I feel that, although my job doesn’t stretch me that much, I will need to have been here for at least another 6 months to come across (in an interview situation) like I have mastered most aspects of it. For example in Dec/January I will be heavily involved in a client take-on which I think will be be impressive in an interview. Also, (this is a minor point) if I stay for a full 2 years I will be credited with two years service in the companies DB pension scheme, I get nothing pensionwise if I leave before then. Thanks for everyones input, I appreciate it.
BugEyedEarl Wrote: > Please elaborate on why do you think this? > I feel that, although my job doesn’t stretch me > that much, I will need to have been here for at > least another 6 months to come across (in an > interview situation) like I have mastered most > aspects of it. For example in Dec/January I will > be heavily involved in a client take-on which I > think will be be impressive in an interview. > I think your approach should really depend on how many job opportunities you can land for yourself later on. Its like trying to buy stock. If you have some cash, should you start looking for opportnities to buy shares immediately or wait till you get some more cash in the future. If you decide to hold on you might just miss some golden opportunities that pass right through you. If i were you, i would give it a shot straightaway. Given this is your first job change, you might want some time to get a feel of the job market.
Danteshek Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > drs Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > > I work in the BO and half the people I work > > with > > > have their CFA charters. The CFA is not a > > ticket > > > to the FO. It just shows you understand what > > > those in the FO are doing. > > > > > > How do they qualify for the Charter with back > > office experience which clearly does not count? > > > Some people have been grandfathered in. The > requirements used to be less stringent. For > instance there is a performance specialist in my > office who has the charter. Today his experience > would not count. I work in the complaince departement and compliance analyst positions do qualify as CFA experience even thought they are BO. The guy I sit next two was awarded his charter two months agon on his complaince experience.
PMwannaB Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Danteshek Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > drs Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > > > > > > I work in the BO and half the people I work > > > with > > > > have their CFA charters. The CFA is not a > > > ticket > > > > to the FO. It just shows you understand > what > > > > those in the FO are doing. > > > > > > > > > How do they qualify for the Charter with back > > > office experience which clearly does not > count? > > > > > > Some people have been grandfathered in. The > > requirements used to be less stringent. For > > instance there is a performance specialist in > my > > office who has the charter. Today his > experience > > would not count. > > > I work in the complaince departement and > compliance analyst positions do qualify as CFA > experience even thought they are BO. The guy I > sit next two was awarded his charter two months > agon on his complaince experience. Compliance definitely counts, as do most MO roles. Performance is closer to BO/IT and definitely doesn’t count.
I would def wait for the 2 year pension…I did the same at my firm for 5 years…think its a worthwhile investment.
You can always throw your hat in the ring and then if an opportunity comes up that is good enough to forgo on the pension you can take it… if not wait. I had the same issue. Another nine months until my two year pension vested but another company offered me a job at a 2.5X higher salary. It was a no-brainer.
“Performance is closer to BO/IT and definitely doesn’t count.” not true …Performance analyst positions count for qualifying experience … your analysing and interpreting investment results doing Attribution analysis …measuring results and comparing against benchmarks … and besides at the end of the day your manager signs off on your application … (i) evaluating or applying financial, economic, and/or statistical data as part of the investment decision-making process involving securities or similar investments, which includes, but is not limited to, publicly traded and privately placed stocks, bonds, and mortgages and their derivatives; commodity-based derivatives and mutual funds; and other investment assets, such as real estate and commodities, if these other investment assets are held as part of a diversified, securities-oriented investment portfolio; or
Rudeboi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > “Performance is closer to BO/IT and definitely > doesn’t count.” > > not true …Performance analyst positions count for > qualifying experience … > your analysing and interpreting investment results > doing Attribution analysis … Not true. This is what analysts in client account management do (or data analytics). The reason the CIPM designation exists is so performance specialists can get an industry designation. The CFA is not applicable at all. measuring results and > comparing against benchmarks … Only to make sure the data is accurate. > and besides at the end of the day your manager > signs off on your application … Mostly false. Portfolio Managers are not supposed to influence the accounting. They can challenge pricing early on, but they do not “sign off on performance” Sure your “manager” signs off, but he is also an IT guy/performance specialist, just at the supervisory level. > > > > (i) evaluating or applying financial, economic, > and/or statistical data as part of the investment > decision-making process involving securities or > similar investments, which includes, but is not > limited to, publicly traded and privately placed > stocks, bonds, and mortgages and their > derivatives; commodity-based derivatives and > mutual funds; and other investment assets, such as > real estate and commodities, if these other > investment assets are held as part of a > diversified, securities-oriented investment > portfolio; or Again, performance specialist is basically an IT function.
There are two different types of positions that have the title “performance” in them. Only the one that does attributions for the portfolio would qualify. The people who maintain the performance calculation systems, i.e. performance specialists, are essentially benchmark specialists, and their experience would not qualify. This is merely an issue of semantics. CFAI can tell which is which.