This saddens me. The premier pitcher (Clemens) and premier hitter (Bonds, though we will see about A-Rod) of the last dozen or so years are just fakes. Very talented fakes, but dopers might as well be robots in my book. I can make a pitching robot that throws 400 mph fast balls. Big deal.

It’s more than a dozen years, I guess. Time flies.

The worst part is both idiots got caught lying. You gotta feel bad for guys like Ken Griffey and Kevin Brown.

Kevin flippin Brown?!?

Did you hear people are launching civil suits against the teams after being had? They feel that the steroid taking players ruined their team spirit and so forth. Most suits are for season ticket holders claiming they want a pro rated refund.

KJH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Did you hear people are launching civil suits > against the teams after being had? They feel that > the steroid taking players ruined their team > spirit and so forth. Most suits are for season > ticket holders claiming they want a pro rated > refund. > > Thanks god John Edwards campaign went no where.

personally, i thought kevin brown looked like he was on roids…i mean, i guess there is no way to no for sure, but i don’t think normal people are as ripped as he is, and that guy was definitely on a rage.

I just remember him being a NY bust.

ok, will probably get lynched for this by the board here - but am just trying to understand the opprobrium heaped on Bonds vs the adulation that Lance Armstrong receives to a non US resident, it appears a bit fantastic to argue that Lance is the only TDF winner/ participant of the last decade or so that hasnt used EPO… the circumstances of the two cases are a bit different agreed, but the lack of a positive test exists in both - yet one guy is a hero and the other’s a villian - how does that work exactly?

Now that you mention it, Kevin Brown prolly did do roids. I think he was named in one of the reports too, his last couple seasons in LA or NY i think. The only other pitchers I’d say compare to Clemens during his time; are Pedro, Johnson, Maddux and Schilling. I don’t think any of those guys did roids though.

I hear what you are saying here, whatcfa, but I think the differences in the two cases is a big factor. There is substantial evidence that Bonds used steroids, despite the lack of a positive test. You have all those records the Feds seized from BALCO. To my knowledge, nobody has anything whatsoever on Armstrong. Please correct me if I am wrong. Now, if it came out that Armstrong was doping, would I be surprised at all? No. The hero/villain part is easy: Bonds acts like a jerk and Armstrong is more of a politician. Beyond that, people draw inspiration from the fact Armstrong survived cancer, and they respect the work he does now with respect to cancer research (Livestrong, etc.).

“It’s hard to believe you, sir. I hate to say that. You’re one of my heroes. But it’s hard to believe.” - Maryland Democrat Rep. Elijah Cummings, to Roger Clemens at the Congressional hearings.

It has been claimed that Lance Armstrong has undergone the most drug tests for an athlete ever. Also he has rare natural physical attributes which clearly enhance his performance.

The interesting, at least in my opinion, is that now as more and more superstars get caught, it may not be as taboo, and Bonds may regain some (relative) if it becomes clear the the “level playing field” everyone talks about, was actually the HGH playing field… It’s a sad day for baseball when John Rocker, Jose Conseco and Ken Caminiti (sp?) are more reputable than Bud Selig… Way to make David Stern look good Bud…

It’s BS. Bonds hit against pitchers who were juicing, Clemens picthed against hitters who were juicing. I’m not saying it’s right by any means, just that everyone was doing it.

What is going to happen next? I think that lying to the media/fans is one thing, but lying under oath is a whole different road he did did not need to take

thepinkman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Kevin flippin Brown?!? I second this outrage!

The true problem is the commissioner. Selig is an absolute joke. I heard a quote from him that was something to the effect of, “We are happy with the progress that we have made and the current checks we have in place in regards to drug testing.” Are you kidding me?!?! Of all things, Congress is stepping in to get to the bottom of this. I personally blame Selig for the embarrassment of my favorite sport. Baseball is no longer America’s pastime. It has been reduced to an American joke.

In my personal opinion, I don’t really care if professional athletes use AAS. I could take all the steroids known to man and I still couldn’t knock a 90mph fastball out of the park. Their job is to entertain, and if steroids help them entertain better, I’m all for it. I view Clemens and Bonds no differently now that I “know” they used steroids. I guess the edge over non-users is an issue, so I say we just make steroids legal and available to everyone. :slight_smile: There’s really know research to suggest intelligent use of steroids is harmful from a health standpoint (of course you have acne, hair thinning, gyno, etc. issues).

The players’ union is as much, or more, to blame than Selig. I’m not absolving Selig, but he and the owners did (repeatedly) attempt to implement steroid testing. The union refused repeatedly. Even those players who didn’t juice towed the union line. In truth, everyone’s to blame: players, owner, the media and fans. The steroid injections may have happened behind close doors, but the results – in terms of statistics and huge muscles – were shown in plain view for a 15 year period. The thing is, no one cared for such a long time. Everyone with half a brain knew juice was prevalent since the 80’s. I remember when Lenny Dykstra reported to camp all jacked up one year. The reporters asked how he got so big. He laughed and said, “Special Vitamins, dude.” No one cared. Ten years went by before anyone made a big deal about steroids. Now, all of a sudden, Bonds and Clemons are bad guys? Not to me.