From IT to FO

So a classmate of mine is looking to get into a primary investment related role while leveraging his IT background. He spent many years in an offshore hedge fund (albeit support and BO) prior to entering b school. I’ve worked with him on several projects and he is one of those guys that figures everything out. His excel, programming, and access skills are superb. He asked me what sort of job he should seek after obtaining his MBA. I’ve explained a hedge fund would be his best bet where he could look into high frequency programmed trading. I would imagine traditional investment firms would stash him in the back and use him for email server issues. What would you all suggest? I’m not too familiar with the IT intensive investment positions.

MBA -> HFT is an unusual transition, unless he was particularly focused on quantitative finance. In which case, why an MBA? Do his programming skill extend beyond Excel, VBA, and Access? HFT also has significant regulatory risk. It may not be around anymore by the time he gets into a pm/research role…

justin88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > MBA -> HFT is an unusual transition, unless he was > particularly focused on quantitative finance. In > which case, why an MBA? Fund blowup, him and his wife moved back to their hometown. > > Do his programming skill extend beyond Excel, VBA, > and Access? I imagine. I’ve only seen the above. His undergrad is computer engineering so C++ should be a nonissue? I am not aware of programming languages really. > HFT also has significant regulatory risk. It may > not be around anymore by the time he gets into a > pm/research role… I see. In any case, what similar type of roles are available?

QuantJock_MBA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > justin88 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > MBA -> HFT is an unusual transition, unless he > was > > particularly focused on quantitative finance. > In > > which case, why an MBA? > > Fund blowup, him and his wife moved back to their > hometown. Fair enough. > > Do his programming skill extend beyond Excel, > VBA, > > and Access? > > I imagine. I’ve only seen the above. His > undergrad is computer engineering so C++ should be > a nonissue? I am not aware of programming > languages really. Computer Engineering could be good, particularly if he can program and understands hardware. > > HFT also has significant regulatory risk. It > may > > not be around anymore by the time he gets into > a > > pm/research role… > > I see. In any case, what similar type of roles > are available? Similar to what?

Ok first, a lot of those quant positions require phd’s in math, statistics, or something similiar. Stellar programming skills doesnt cut it. They want intensive math backgrounds. So yes he will have an edge with programming. But he wont go as far as you think. Is it a top 10 MBA program? If not, it will be tough to move.

He might be a good fit for risk management-related positions. Hedge fund trading seems like a stretch for someone with only BO experience.

He had a strong calculus background. So the math may be there. I’ll be sure to mention risk management type of positions. Any other ideas of IT/Investment type of positions?

As ohai mentioned, a friend of mine is currently working as a risk consultant (FO) at one of big 4 and makes over $100k. I can’t guarantee that, but he seems enjoying it. He doesn’t have CFA, FRM, or MBA, but has solid work experiences. Hope it helps. How about you QuanJock? I’ve read numerous posts from you and am wondering your plan after MBA.

There are many many kind of quants, HFT isn’t the only quant profile in market. I’m sure when he’ll start looking for it, he’ll find many profiles where he can fit in. I can’t specifically tell that, because I can’t categorize them, but in my search (and research) I’ve see many many kind of roles for Engineer+MBA in Finance, many of them aren’t even “quant” profiles as such. Things like exotics pricing, structured finance, quantitative strategy, fixed income risk management, risk management in general… roles in sales & trading teams of complicated products, all kinds of roles in index products. I mean there are lot of roles other then HFT quant, where an Engineer+MBA can move in and he’ll be preferred there, and seriously, I don’t think you need any finance knowledge to get into HFT. That’s a mathematical modeling or data mining job not a finance job, whatever little finance knowledge you need the HFT firm cam provide easily, so even they aren’t looking for MBAs, it’s more about “if you can formulate what you can imagine” kind of math modeling skills they need.

dhyun3 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How about you QuanJock? I’ve read numerous posts > from you and am wondering your plan after MBA. I’m looking for suitable finance work. I’m not being overly picky, but I’d like to remain within a portfolio management type of role. Otherwise a corporate finance & development role would be fine by me. You’ll be seeing more in a few months, for now I gotta study.

IT guys if they are wanting to leverage their quantitative skills are better of pursuing one of the following 1.) MBA From Finance Centric Schools - CMU/Berkeley/Wharton etc. 2.) MFE from a good school close to financial district. 3.) PhD in Quantitative discipline.

dhyun3 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As ohai mentioned, a friend of mine is currently > working as a risk consultant (FO) at one of big 4 > and makes over $100k. I can’t guarantee that, but > he seems enjoying it. He doesn’t have CFA, FRM, or > MBA, but has solid work experiences. Hope it > helps. > > How about you QuanJock? I’ve read numerous posts > from you and am wondering your plan after MBA. Is he doing enterprise risk management or financial risk management ?

Bernanke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There are many many kind of quants, HFT isn’t the > only quant profile in market. I’m sure when he’ll > start looking for it, he’ll find many profiles > where he can fit in. I can’t specifically tell > that, because I can’t categorize them, but in my > search (and research) I’ve see many many kind of > roles for Engineer+MBA in Finance, many of them > aren’t even “quant” profiles as such. Things like > exotics pricing, structured finance, quantitative > strategy, fixed income risk management, risk > management in general… roles in sales & > trading teams of complicated products, all kinds > of roles in index products. I mean there are lot > of roles other then HFT quant, where an > Engineer+MBA can move in and he’ll be preferred > there, and seriously, I don’t think you need any > finance knowledge to get into HFT. That’s a > mathematical modeling or data mining job not a > finance job, whatever little finance knowledge you > need the HFT firm cam provide easily, so even they > aren’t looking for MBAs, it’s more about “if you > can formulate what you can imagine” kind of math > modeling skills they need. Appreciate it Bernanke.

What is his personality like? I think personality is instrumental to getting a FO gig. I rarely see introverted people in FO positions.

QuantJock_MBA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What would you all suggest? I’m not too familiar > with the IT intensive investment positions. Your friend can check out this forum: http://wilmott.com/categories.cfm?catid=5

Thank goodness i don’t have to worry about that or compete with PhDs from Harvard and MIT.

iteracom Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ok first, a lot of those quant positions require > phd’s in math, statistics, or something similiar. > Stellar programming skills doesnt cut it. They > want intensive math backgrounds. > > So yes he will have an edge with programming. But > he wont go as far as you think. > > Is it a top 10 MBA program? If not, it will be > tough to move. What iteracom said. Don’t bother unless you have PhD or MFE from top 5… on the other thought… don’t bother unless you have Ph.D and NOT From community college. Also, lets be cristal clear that there are people who can program (quants) and people who can develop (developers). It takes a completely different skill set to develop a large scale up then hack up an uber efficient C++ hft app

comp_sci_kid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > iteracom Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Ok first, a lot of those quant positions > require > > phd’s in math, statistics, or something > similiar. > > Stellar programming skills doesnt cut it. They > > want intensive math backgrounds. > > > > So yes he will have an edge with programming. > But > > he wont go as far as you think. > > > > Is it a top 10 MBA program? If not, it will be > > tough to move. > > What iteracom said. Don’t bother unless you have > PhD or MFE from top 5… No, this is not true. While PhD holders represent a significant number of quants, there are plenty of non-PhDs in the field as well. I would go so far as to say that those that can get the jobs without the PhD are probably better off, since most of the PhD programs are at best loosely beneficial to one’s finance career (compared to time spent in the industry). Having legit quantitative skills, however, is not optional. While 4 years ago you might have gotten jobs with programming or math/stats/physics/etc skills, nowadays employers are looking for both the quant ability and the programming ability. If you just have the programming ability, your best HF bet is to start on a data or systems team and work your way up to trading/research/qpm.

You know what’s crazy? You would think having a PhD would give you an advantage in being a quant. But you are in competition with people who have multiple PhDs…

SuperiorReturn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You know what’s crazy? You would think having a > PhD would give you an advantage in being a quant. > But you are in competition with people who have > multiple PhDs… Good point, i know a couple!