Isildurrr is more of a reference to the epic Dwan vs Viktor Blom battles. I can’t believe no one in a poker mad nation figured it out.
Second, fine let us ignore everything before Israel. Everything you speak is regurgitated nonsense that has been addressed so perhaps you can make the effort to read, yes?
Arafat accepted the ‘state of Israel’ and turned down the deal because he had lost complete face when the israelis slaughtered the palestine population in Lebanon when the PLO had declared they were withdrawing. How interesting that you had no refute to the articles posted above. Know what the UN classified the slaughter as pal? _ ‘Genocide’, _ Canada and Fat Sam begged to differ. Interesting that you ignored those reports when you turned up witht the same shit that western news channels blabber.
Third do you even know why PLO rejected it, here are some extracts,
Ariel Sharon, the man who arranged the massacre of innocent refugees and went on to lead Israel.
Like I said before, Hamas- not even in the picture, still a social welfare organization.
I didn’t know what to expect when I started the thread, It was more of a casual mocking thing, It is amazing to know that there are 2 Canucks, a brit and a smattering of other people who understand the real reasons behind the war now.
The internet has it’s bad points but after all these years, it has finally _ given the truth a tongue _ [from a lovely poem]. The world stands with the palestine people for a reason. Give them freedom and give it to them now.
You’re still in the position of justifying terrorism. Do you think the same about al-Qaeda and its violence against Americans? You’re cool with that because the US persecuted their peoples? I honestly don’t comprehend how you can stand behind a group that is launching rockets and mortars indescriminately at civilians.
No one is “ok” with how the Palestinian refugees are being treated. But you can’t negotiate with people launching rockets. You lift the blockade, then they’ll launch rockets for the next item on their list of what they want. Then you’ll give in and do that… and then it goes on and on.
First the rocket attacks need to stop. Then things should move forward.
Do you call the Egyptians racist genocidal people too? Because they closed their border to these terrorists as well. You need to understand this isn’t racial, this is about security. The Egyptians certainly aren’t being racist closing their door to terrorism. Neither are the Jordanians. Yet the Israeli’s are? No.
Israel has many Arab citizens (>20%) and is ranked much higher than most countries in terms of human rights (countries such as India rank much lower). An Israeli Arab has much higher standard of human rights than an Indian woman. This isn’t a racial matter. This is about terrorism.
No one is justifying terrorism. Hamas are scum like everyone in this thread has repeated yet you refuse to read. To combat terrorist organizations you need to first understand them. Hamas are different from PLO who are different from Al Qaeda who were different from Mandela’s ANC who are different from seperatist movements of Kurdistan so your weird comparisons are bloody fking pointless.
Israeli people just like the palestenian people probably want peace but the Israeli leaders that the world has dealt with in general certainly haven’t behaved like that. No I don’t call Egyptians genocidal seeing as they don’t illegaly invade a country and occupy it for close to a decade, they don’t drop cluster bombs on southern portions of Lebanon, they don’t arrange the slaughter of innocent palesteniens in a refugee camp and commit war crime after war crime but are never pulled up on it. America’s sweetheart can do no wrong it seems. The hypocrisy is sickening, the carte blanche is astounding.
Israel prods and pokes and when they put their hands up in futile resistance. they smash them to the ground with impunity.
They rounded up 350 palesteniens including political leaders which untimately led to the death of 5 palesteniens and then we actually found out
Madness, you can’t fight extremism like this. As long as Israel acts like this Hamas will have some support or the other and this will continue. Israel knows this. You can understand in the way their leaders speak without filters.
Hamas have extremely little to no presence in the west bank. The west bank is led by american backed Abbas with little radical presence. What’s stopping Israel from accepting that portion as a free palestine which is representative of the palestine people. Once the palesteniens in Gaza see that Hamas is actually impeding their freedom, they’ll gather all the Hamas officials and drive them to Tel-Aviv themselves.
No, lets fire more bomb and rockets into a defenseless population and give Hamas more martyrs. Genius.
I can’t stop repeating this figure beacause it just shows the crazy world we live in. A vast majority of humanity can agree that the first step towards moving forward is that whatever the circumstances we must recognize a free palestine. One country says they will veto against it. The country that stands for democracy apparently. Fat Sam
We despise Hamas, we are not anti-semitite, we do not condone terrorism but as those fedora wearing, scarf loving, hash tag using hipsters so succulently put we cannot give the moderates a voice unless they are free.
Honestly it’s probably better to not waste your breath any further, as Geo is just another armchair expert who has no real basis for any of his biased opinions and will argue with you until you are blue in the face. The fact that he has spent his entire natural life working in accounting/treasury within the borders of Canada pretty much invalidates his opinions on almost anything relevant you can discuss about current events, so my suggestion is just stop posting responses to him.
Isildurr, Thank you for sharing such insightful information, though still cannt understand how people can justify the IDF extreme standpoint. Hope one of those guys can provide Israel a better policy than the FINAL SOLUTION which Israel is implementing.
No problem buddy, The IDF / Israeli position is ridiculous and no one has been able to justify it apart from the usual rhetoric they pick up on cable news. ‘Israel defending itself’ and ‘Hamas are terrorists’ which are probably true but don’t even begin to scratch the surface. Infact the trajectories since people are so damn insistent on drawing because they can’t defend what’s happening are more similar to the coloniolist movements.
We will see some amazing things in our lifetime, hopefully we see the formation of a truly democratic UN and a free palestine.
I’m normally highly critical of Israel, but I’m finding it hard to condemn their actions against rockets being fired constantly into their territory. Is there really an alternative? I don’t see just Israelis sitting back and doing nothing as a realistic solution, land for peace has been repeatedly rejected, and Israel ceasing to exist is not an option anyone can expect to have accepted, especially since at least three generations of people have been born and raised there.
I am highly critical of Israel. I believe a peace solution has to see the end of Israeli support for settlements in the West Bank, and a demonstrable commitment to ending what is effectively an Apartheid system for Palestinians and Israeli Arabs, though the second needs to be linked to an end to terrorist tactics on the Palestinian side.
Part of the tragedy is that both sides are held hostage by the extremists among them.
There are also plenty outside of Israel and the Palestinian Territories who have an interest in seeing the conflict perpetuated, and thus try to sabotage peace processes when they might take effect. They have supported Palestinians to now and the withdrawal of that support is frightening to the Palestinian Authority, so they have leverage. Iran’s nuclear program would be harder to justify without the Arab Israeli conflict present. US troops in Saudi Arabia would be harder to justify without an imminent security threat there. Al Qaeda would have a harder time recruiting terrorists if the Arab Israeli conflict wasn’t stirring up so much hatred towards the west. And the list could go on. A colleague in grad school, who is by no means an Israel supporter, pointed out to me that Palestinian expats are to some extent “the Arab Jews” in the sense that they are often unwanted visitors and treated with suspicion in foreign countries. Like Jews in Europe, they tended to be more itinerant, better educated, be involved in professions, banking, etc., to a greater degree than other Muslim Arabs. She pointed out that many other Muslim countries would like to expel them and send them back to Palestine, which is one issue that exacerbates the conflict, because sending them back to Israel/Palestine is preferred to assimilation in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc… I don’t really know if this is true or not, but my colleague is a serious scholar who traveled in the region, is not herself either Israeli or Palestinian or Jewish or Arab, and seemed a reliable source. Finally, there is some irony that, up to 1947, Jews and Muslims tended to get along far far better than Jews and Christians ever did.
@bchad It occurs to me that I don’t really have an idea why the Palestinians are shooting rockets. I just assumed they’re dicks. Did the Israelis do something to piss 'em off (beyond what they usually do, I suppose)?
^ You are not allowed to use critical thinking when analyzing this conflict. Just repeat what you’ve been told. There can only be a good guy and bad guy in a conflict, it makes it much easier to understand. Since the last cease fire 18 months ago, no blockade has been lifted, settlements have continued to expand and 500 men were imprisoned without any trial. Just shut up, wait until the next election and vote for who the US/Israel wants you to vote for. There’s no reason to get pi$$ed at all that. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter does not apply here.
^ I’m not 100% sure, but I think this has changed since the whole Muslim Brotherhood and subsequent shenanigans. None the less, why pick on Israel? Why don’t their Saudi brothers accept them with open arms?