Just curious to find if people who are desperate to get an entry level job in ER would consider moving to India to take up a low level FO job outsourced by Wall Street firms. The job might involve updating models, writing short reports, building models etc. Pay should be close to 20-25k USD. The upside is after a couple of years one can always go back to the US and get a “Real FO job”.
I’m very curious to see the success rate (not in terms of investment return but in terms of getting a “real FO job”) in a few years of people coming out of outsourced grunt work jobs. It reminds me of a passage in “Den of Thieves” in which Tom Hill (now of BAAM) talks about the importance of spending the time in the trenches as a junior banker/analyst and how the countless hours of modeling helped him develop into a senior banker by knowing the key trigger points/value drivers during a negotiation and the likely scale to changes. If we put aside any debate on the quality of work coming from these outsourced centers and the IP risk and just assume that it’s a working model, it begs the question of if there will be a generation of “domestic” UK or US investment professionals who don’t have the core blocking/tackling skills. Batterinram- do you anecdotally know anyone or have any stats about people who have made this leap? Would it be easier to exit to Hong Kong (solely due to geographic proximity) rather than London or the US?
Soma, My question was directed at US/UK citizens because I think it would be easier for them to make the transition due to 1) Outsourced research mainly covers US/UK stocks 2) The number of FO jobs available in US/UK is much greater than the jobs available in India. For Indians its a different story. From personal experience I can tell you that it is very difficult to get a “real FO job” after doing outsourced equity research because you get pigeon holed. However I have seen some success stories mostly in captives. I have seen friends working in HSBC and Goldman Sachs in the outsourced operations move to FO positions in Mumbai, London and Singapore. The success rate is pretty low, if I have to take a guess I would say it is close to 5%.
My college roommate was from India, he told me that he won’t move back even if he get a all-expense paid relocation package (including housing). I guess I will take his word.
Naw Hells no !!
Moving to India for a 20K salary? Add two zeros and I’d do it.
I would given that I just got laid off this week and finding a FO job here seems pretty hard…and being a US citizen I can always come back…Plus international experience for my Fall 2010 MBA plan would be a plus…
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Moving to India for a 20K salary? Add two zeros > and I’d do it. Same. It’d have to be many multiples of my current comp.
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Moving to India for a 20K salary? Add two zeros > and I’d do it. Cost of living in India is much lower compared to US cities, so 20k would make for a pretty comfortable lifestyle. Of course your savings will be less in dollar terms though.
JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Moving to India for a 20K salary? Add two zeros > and I’d do it. I will have to stress again that this question is not for people who already have a FO job in the US, the answer is obvious in their case. It is directed at entry level guys who are desperate to get a foot in the door. Will they take the trouble to go to India so that they have a better chance of getting a FO position in the US after a couple of years.
I was in New Delhi for 1 month, 2 years ago. I plan never to go back. In fact, my perception of South Asians has been altered in a negative way by the trip.
20-25 K USD doesn’t get you anything especially if you are in Delhi or Mumbai. You are likely to have a better lifestyle + savings in a 2nd tier US city making 30-35K then moving to India for 25K. chintz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Cost of living in India is much lower compared to > US cities, so 20k would make for a pretty > comfortable lifestyle. Of course your savings will > be less in dollar terms though.
India is not for the faint hearted…it’s chaos in it’s purest form.
what’s FO?what’s IP risk?
The main problem living in India is the enormous disparity between the affluent middle class and rich and the poor people. It is heartbreaking to little watch kids begging and scrounging to make their ends meet. I do not understand how the middle class and affluent Indians living in India can be so selfish and accept the poverty that some people are living in around them. Watcnhing so many kids in such destitute conditions is probably the biggest reason why one would not want to live there.
louisvillegrad Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- Watcnhing so many kids in such > destitute conditions is probably the biggest > reason why one would not want to live there. You answered your own question … People are too materialistic and escapist… but that’s genuine human nature everywhere … you need to have a solid platform for social consciousness and philanthrophy … one of those catalysts I believe is strong Governance … and thats where India fails miserably …
I think India is going through a bad cycle but slowly improving. How ironic it is that a country that gave birth to the philosophies of peace, giving up worldly and materialistic pleasures for spiritual salvation (Hinduism and Buddhism) ended up in this state. Could it have something to do with years of Islamic and British colonialisation
No, I think the root causes are more general in nature … A gargantuan population leads to a “Survival of the fittest” race where everyone out there want to cut throats … There is a big pool of both skilled and unskilled labour who are always looking out for more and more … leading to high degrees of bribery, corruption and other such malpractices. an incompetent government full of red tapism only adds fuel to fire. The basic root cause is the lack of finacial security which really cripples your thinking … it narrows your goals and makes you more and more materialistic and stoic The growth of privatisation, free economy and the new wave of capitalism is a breath of fresh air … We have certainly made some great strides in the past decade … This thread itself is a huge testimony to that :-).
In 1900, India’s share of world GDP was around 25%. The next 90 years were straight downhill ,however. For the period when the Brits ruled India,Montagu Norman deserves a lot of credit for bankrupting the country. Then the local socialists took over and continued down the well trodden path to serfdom. The country is still too leftist/statist in its policies and level of intellectual debate.
eros79 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No, I think the root causes are more general in > nature … A gargantuan population leads to a > “Survival of the fittest” race where everyone out > there want to cut throats … There is a big pool > of both skilled and unskilled labour who are > always looking out for more and more … leading > to high degrees of bribery, corruption and other > such malpractices. an incompetent government full > of red tapism only adds fuel to fire. Nonsense - the population levels are not the cause of bribery,corruption etc. It is the overbearing presence of the govt in every aspect of people’s lives that is a direct cause. Big govt is a recipe for corruption.