Agree with bchadwick and others. In PE especially would be shocked if a majority of PE investors did not get their first PE job thru a family connection, direct or indirect. Breaking in can be hard – use any legal means. If you prove yourself, how you got your start will just show you were resourceful.
Know a guy who got an internship through family in his sophmore year. Since that internship he has kicked ass at every job hes had, had multiple offers out of school, great connections. He’s now working at a fund and kicking butt. Going through family/friends, is no different than the Harvard kid using his powerful alumni or a frat connection. The random draw/selection for resumes in finance, makes having connections a key would say its far from lazy. OP, go for it. Just try to get one-on-one with the guy and pitch like anyone else.
adehbone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Going through family/friends, is no different than > the Harvard kid using his powerful alumni or a > frat connection. The random draw/selection for > resumes in finance, makes having connections a key > would say its far from lazy. I’m not disagreeing with your post in general, but using family connections that you’re born with is quite a bit different than being accepted into one of the top institutions through hard-work and then leveraging that network into an offer.
ASSet_MANagement Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Mobius Striptease Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > ASSet_MANagement Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > My uncle ran FOREX @ Lehman for a decade and > > then > > > ran a quasi national bank in Japan. > > > > > > I never ever once asked him for anything more > > than > > > advice, there is no quicker way to discount > > your > > > legitimacy than by asking for a family > > connection. > > > > > > you will learn the hard way > > > How so? I’ve become fairly successful for my age > without relying on my family for $ or jobs. > > I just think nepotism is pretty scummy, I’d rather > give a job to a poor, smart, deserving, kid, than > a cousin who might be qualified but hasn’t worked > as hard for the current position. > > Networking =/= milking family connections. Very strange, coming from a spoilt brat who is yet to learn about being responsible.
Danny Boy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > adehbone Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Going through family/friends, is no different > than > > the Harvard kid using his powerful alumni or a > > frat connection. The random draw/selection for > > resumes in finance, makes having connections a > key > > would say its far from lazy. > > I’m not disagreeing with your post in general, but > using family connections that you’re born with is > quite a bit different than being accepted into one > of the top institutions through hard-work and then > leveraging that network into an offer. So what if the OP did not goto Harvard or get 4.0 gpa in college. Or get into a top frat. Does that mean that person is not quality? But the Harvard guy who worked hard in High School, should be able to leverage their network till the day they die? Everyone hands in a resume and interviews at the end of the day.
adehbone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So what if the OP did not goto Harvard or get 4.0 > gpa in college. Or get into a top frat. Does that > mean that person is not quality? But the Harvard > guy who worked hard in High School, should be able > to leverage their network till the day they die? > Everyone hands in a resume and interviews at the > end of the day. Everyone should leverage their network. I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between earning a network and being born with one.
I can see that only AM aspires to the CFA level of integrity like myself. No conflicts of interest and no appearance of conflicts of interest. Never used a family member to get a job, never used connections to move job. I’m better than 95% of you - I did it all myself and I did it the hard way. FU all while me & AM sing Sinatra together. “And now, the end is near…”
Muddahudda Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I can see that only AM aspires to the CFA level of > integrity like myself. No conflicts of interest > and no appearance of conflicts of interest. Never > used a family member to get a job, never used > connections to move job. I’m better than 95% of > you - I did it all myself and I did it the hard > way. > > FU all while me & AM sing Sinatra together. > > “And now, the end is near…” Yeah well…I never dropped my cell phone in the toilet! So there!
JOE2010 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ASSet_MANagement Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Mobius Striptease Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > ASSet_MANagement Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > > My uncle ran FOREX @ Lehman for a decade > and > > > then > > > > ran a quasi national bank in Japan. > > > > > > > > I never ever once asked him for anything > more > > > than > > > > advice, there is no quicker way to discount > > > your > > > > legitimacy than by asking for a family > > > connection. > > > > > > > > > you will learn the hard way > > > > > > How so? I’ve become fairly successful for my > age > > without relying on my family for $ or jobs. > > > > I just think nepotism is pretty scummy, I’d > rather > > give a job to a poor, smart, deserving, kid, > than > > a cousin who might be qualified but hasn’t > worked > > as hard for the current position. > > > > Networking =/= milking family connections. > > > > Very strange, coming from a spoilt brat who is yet > to learn about being responsible. LOL – You’re funny, eThug.
For instance, look at Al Gore’s kid – long line of F - up’s (drug posession, speeding while DUI, drug possession etc…) Working P/E in NYC. Deserving? Obiously not. Im not arguing that if you use family you’re instantly undeserving or unqualified, I’m just saying that it crowds out potentially more qualified candidates.
Those potentially more qualified candidates don’t have the political connections like Al Gore’s kid. The owners valued political connections more than hard finance knowledge, and I don’t blame them. Spreadsheet monkeys are a dime-a-dozen - sons of VPs aren’t. The PE shop is doing what they believe is in their best interest and isn’t that what private enterprise is about? You’re looking at qualified from an academic lens, not an economic one (which decisions will make you more money).
Danny Boy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Those potentially more qualified candidates don’t > have the political connections like Al Gore’s kid. > The owners valued political connections more than > hard finance knowledge, and I don’t blame them. > Spreadsheet monkeys are a dime-a-dozen - sons of > VPs aren’t. The PE shop is doing what they > believe is in their best interest and isn’t that > what private enterprise is about? > > You’re looking at qualified from an academic lens, > not an economic one (which decisions will make you > more money). The other side of that argument is what happens when you have a firm full of connected people who don’t know how to sh!t in a toilet?
The firm fails and people lose money. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?
Do it pimp. I think people are getting a bit overly idealistic here.
^ Agreed, this is becoming an abortion of an argument.
i like danny boy’s use of the term “political capital”. its a great concept and it puts my LIII reading on human capital in context. i also havent utilized connections in my career advancement, but i will trade some portion of my academic capital for political capital gladly. gotta diversify your human capital dudes
Danny Boy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > adehbone Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Going through family/friends, is no different > than > > the Harvard kid using his powerful alumni or a > > frat connection. The random draw/selection for > > resumes in finance, makes having connections a > key > > would say its far from lazy. > > I’m not disagreeing with your post in general, but > using family connections that you’re born with is > quite a bit different than being accepted into one > of the top institutions through hard-work and then > leveraging that network into an offer. You’re making the naive assumption that everyone who goes to Harvard got there through hardwork on their own merit. Frankly, I think this discussion has gotten really really polarized with people getting very personal in their attacks on others, making naive assumptions about a meritocratic world in which we do not live and taking full responsibility for everything they’ve ever accomplished from their soapbox while I’m sure they’re ignoring the fact that everyone who wasn’t born in Africa with no limbs or living parents has some unfair advantage over someone else.
Meritocratic world sounds about as plausible as efficient markets. A useful assumption that’s kinda-sorta true, until one’s faced with reality.
I worked for and earned everything in my life - including giving birth to myself. …I don’t always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
I say go for it pimp, you can either win the approval of your AF peers through martyrdom or work an inside line to get an interview and make it rain. When it’s your career, you don’t f’ around. I would argue, that anyone who is too much of a fruit to twist any connection they have to their advantage in a situation like this should be working in some charity field and get out of finance. We make deals and calculated decisions here. Charles Munger got into Yale Law school despite not having finished his undergrad because his uncle who was a justice pulled strings to get him in. There’s not one person on this forum with half as much talent as Munger’s middle finger, and had he not taken that opportunity, he would probably not have become the dynamic duo with Buffet years later. Instead, some no talent @ss clown who followed all the rules to go to an ivy league school but lacked any freaking investment talent would have taken the position, and the investing world would be a worse place for it. And you know what, it’s probably the same side of Munger that took advantage of that opportunity that made him successful through investing during periods of unkind opportunity brought about due to tight liquidity and down markets. I mean this whole argument is dumb. Somehow getting an interview because you were in the same frat as someone or the same university or met at some happy hour or because you met at a CFA society meeting is so different from getting an interview because you know them through family. All of them potentially offer someone an unfair advantage over an equally qualified cold candidate because of some personal connection they’ve made with someone in a position of power. Networking is networking is networking. If you want to get all hardline about it, then all networking is unfair, people should only be judged solely on the basis of their resume (once it’s been scrubbed of all references to thing you may have in common with the employer of course). Oh, and to your original question on how to bridge the gap: Start with an Informational Interview that bridges into a convo on your willing to work for free / ie internship situation. It’s a standard because it works. Oh, and don’t sound desperate, just willing to do what it takes.