I’m pretty sure we won’t be electing any University of Phoenix alums as President anytime soon.
Barack Obama, 44th President of the United States BA, Columbia University JD, Harvard University
Look guys, universities are societal sorting mechanisms. Society uses information about your education to draw generalizations. Maybe it’s not fair, but that’s how it works. There are probably some University of Phoenix graduates who are smarter, more hardworking and generally more capable than some Harvard Business School graduates. However, in 99% of such comparisons, this will not be the case. There is a difference between being politically correct and being oblivious to obvious truths. Who is to say that Harvard graduates have never had to overcome adversity? Sure, some people get in because they are connected like crazy. However, most of them are normal people like us who have worked their asses off and have made tremendous sacrifices for their education and careers. That’s why they were good enough to get in in the first place. If you would argue that lower tier universities are superior to those in the upper tier, ask yourself if you are making that argument out of rational thought or from some bizarre pretense of morality.
It pays to go to good schools, but there are always examples of people who make it without advanced education - probably because of lack of money at the beginning of their career and the area they live in. My boss has an engineering undergrad degree from a sh!tty school in Canada - he is worth $40 million (was worth double that at the market peak). His boss has an engineering undergrad degree from a sh!tty university in Saskatchewan - he is worth $800 million dollars. They are both highly intelligent, competent, and would fare well in top schools. Very rich people without top school education is not all that uncommon. One of best long-term performing money managers in Canada was an electrician that managed to get his CFA charter. Another fantastic money manager in Canada (average 24% returns of the past 15ish years) doesn’t have any formal education in finance. The market doesn’t care what school you go to, and I think giving that circumstance, it really makes it a level playing field for investors; there are lots of seemingly “dumb a$$” investors who will blow financial professionals from top schools out of the water in returns. However, ihihm has a point: there are a lot of people who complain about people in top schools. They undoubtedly have a better chance to excel in places like government and big business. That’s just the way it is. Investors feel more confident knowing their CEO went to Wharton or Harvard. It will be that way for a while. Bottom line: Ivy league students should stop braggin’ and UofP grads should stop complainin’
TheAliMan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My boss has an engineering undergrad degree from a > sh!tty school in Canada - he is worth $40 million > (was worth double that at the market peak). His > boss has an engineering undergrad degree from a > sh!tty university in Saskatchewan - he is worth > $800 million dollars. They are both highly > intelligent, competent, and would fare well in top > schools. Very rich people without top school > education is not all that uncommon. +1 My boss went to some 3rd tier state school I had never heard of until I started working for him. He had a nine figure net worth in his early 30s and is worth much more now. I’ve worked for people who went to Ivy League schools (including a Harvard MBA with 15 years of investing experience) and they can’t even play on the same field as this guy when it comes to investing. It would be a joke to put them side by side. A top education helps you get your foot in the door but it guarantees nothing. Likewise, if you got a weaker school, you can still make it big, but you will not have any doors opened for you. That’s pretty much where it starts and ends for schools. The problem with a lot of people who went to top schools is they assume that they are smarter and better than everyone else; the flaw in this logic is the assumption that people have equal access to merit. Merit is not nearly as accessible to the general population as it is to people who come from financially strong families who can afford to send their children to elite private high schools and pay for extra tutoring, music lessons, sports camps, etc. IMO, if you come from a wealthy family that was able to provide substantial advantages, you’re sort of a screw up if you don’t go to a top private college.
Hello Mister Walrus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you would argue that lower tier universities > are superior to those in the upper tier, ask > yourself if you are making that argument out of > rational thought or from some bizarre pretense of > morality. +10
All these comments about “my boss went to Devry and is worth a trillion dollars so therefore anyone who went to a sh!tty school is more accomplished than someone who went to a real school” is basically akin to saying that all Asians are tall and good at basketball because Yao Ming is tall and good at basketball. I am perfectly comfortable betting my left test!cle that there is a strong positive correlation between quality of education and future compensation. Anyone who wants to take the other side of that bet better re-evaluate whether you’re ok with going through life with one nut.
“my boss went to Devry and is worth a trillion dollars so therefore anyone who went to a sh!tty school is more accomplished than someone who went to a real school” If I am reading correctly, nobody actually said that “everybody” who went to a shitty school is “more” accomplished than someone who went to a real school. The point being made is that just because they somebody went to a shitty school, it doesn’t mean that they are full of crap and just because somebody went to Havard and Wharton, it again doesn’t guarantee that they are smarter than everybody else. “I am perfectly comfortable betting my left test!cle that there is a strong positive correlation between quality of education and future compensation.” That can actually be quoted in the “Heuristic Bias” reading.
“I am perfectly comfortable betting my left test!cle that there is a strong positive correlation between quality of education and future compensation.” Of course there is. That is just evidence of the system we live in. It doesn’t prove anything about one’s worth as a person.
spierce Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 3 jobs ago I taught some classes at DeVry to get > some extra money for my wedding. While there I > found some pretty intelligent people that screwed > up in life, or never had the best options, trying > to make themselves better. I was interesting to > them because I was a successful person with > practical working knowledge and I could relate to > them and impart my knowledge in ways that would > apply to their lives. > > What is so wrong with this? > > Sure, some were still screwed up, some were plain > stupid, some were throwing their money away. > However, everybody deserves to make themselves > better, nobody should judge them for doing so. > > They may not all be the best, or brightest, but > the ones that are try damn hard. > > While in grad school I worked directly for the > president of the university on special projects, > mainly financial analysis. He sent me on a 3 > month internship with McKinsey, who was engaged by > a board of the most influential businessmen in the > state to study how to make the state education > system better. We analyzed dozens of metrics to > figure out how best to allocate the state’s money > to each university. > > The end conclusion the McKinsey guys came up with > was to shut down all medical and law schools at > Tier 2 and 3 schools, concentrating the money up > to the “best and brightest” people, who would go > on to be more productive members of society. > > Naturally, the guys working with me were mostly > the “best” (in their minds) and missed an obvious > problem with their conclusion. Not everybody > needs to work for a top 10 law firm, or a fortune > 50 company. Not everybody needs to be a top > IB’er, or a prodigy investment manager. > > They only need to fit the needs of society. For > every tier 3 lawschool grad out there who isn’t > working for a top law firm, I’ll show you a person > who might be helping battered women get to court > for restraining orders or divorce, or to protect > their kids. For every tier 3 MBA program out > there with a non-Fortune 50 worker, I’ll show you > a small business owner, part of the employers who > employ multiples more people than the Fortune > 500. > > Only ignorant fools, who think themselves > educated, miss this important fact. This is great! Thanks spierce. Despite the jokes I may crack about Devry, community colleges, and UofPheonix alike, I do hold respect for anyone trying to better themselves and agree with Spierce tenfold. Again as stated before, what exactly is wrong with someone trying to better themselves? The other day I was working late and a janitor walked in the elevator with me and somehow conversation started up that he was taking engineering courses at a local comm. college because his wife was having a second baby. I was very impressed and hold a lot of respect for this guy. Sadly I know far too many elitists that would look down on him simply because he is a janitor and is going to a bad school. Others would say he shouldn’t have a kid, etc… This type of mentality is so terrible and I find it littered in elite institutions. Its obvious that those in MIT, Harvard, etc… for the most part are better prepared to take on societies higher roles. But that doesn’t mean you have to look down on those trying to get to a better position in life even if its through Devry or whatever. These type of elitists fail to realize that the graduates from Devry and etc… ultimately benefit everyone.
iheartiheartmath Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > All these comments about “my boss went to Devry > and is worth a trillion dollars so therefore > anyone who went to a sh!tty school is more > accomplished than someone who went to a real > school” is basically akin to saying that all > Asians are tall and good at basketball because Yao > Ming is tall and good at basketball. It’s actually not like that at all. If you can’t see how those statements are different, you overpaid for your education (no offense).
Saying “My boss went to DeVry and is worth eleventy trillion dollars” is like saying “Harvard MBAs are criminals, just look at the Enron guys.” I agree with Walrus that schools are just sorting mechanisms. Hiring managers have better odds at picking the right driven employee if they just stick to the elite schools. No elitist mentality coming from here, I went to a regional public school where a semester’s tuition is less than 2 weeks’ pay of an average earner.
people who work 100hr weeks their entire life are failures, even if they are worth $100 billion… doesn’t matter what school you went to
also, this is where a major difference lies between most CFAs and CFAs like me. most of you guys seem to value a life by earning power. i value a life by the degree of valuable change instigated by an individual. i give more praise to someone who volunteers 100 hours of their life every week than to someone who works 100 hours and donates 50% of their $100 billion estate while keeping $50 billion for their own. i put more value in the advancement of knowledge and theory, than in the actual intermediation process. don’t be seller, or a reteller, be a good speller and build a new formula feller.
All elitism aside here, but I remember meeting some clown at a party who proudly told me, “I go to the University of Phoenix.” Still amused that he used the term “go to” as if he was speaking about a physical location, I promptly responded with “That’s great! I hear Arizona is supposed to be beautiful!” Sometimes you need to humor them.
MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > people who work 100hr weeks their entire life are > failures, even if they are worth $100 billion… > doesn’t matter what school you went to And the least intelligent post of the day goes to…
iheartiheartmath Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > people who work 100hr weeks their entire life > are > > failures, even if they are worth $100 > billion… > > doesn’t matter what school you went to > > > And the least intelligent post of the day goes > to… you?
iheartiheartmath Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And the least intelligent post of the day goes > to… and the least respect as a human being goes to…
Guys, I am not even talking about soul and morality here. I am not talking humanity, and feel-good love-traingulation, or someone having you at hello. No thats not what I am talking about folks. It is true that if your dad went to Harvard, you wouldnt have much problem getting in either. Or if your mom is a millionaire socialite that you can pretty much walk through the doors of an Ivy League school. Most presidents, Justices, Senators went to big schools. Its not easy to go to an average school and become a policy or decision maker in this country. In Afghanistan and Pakistan, you cant expect to gain much in life if your dad was poor. But if you were born in the right family, you will live in ease for generations to come. Just saying that US model and Afghani model are very similar in this regard. Its a feudal system. Therefore, my bias as a hiring manager is to wonder whether this Harvard grad really has the brains or is he riding his family’s fortune train?
needhelp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It is true that if your dad went to Harvard, you > wouldnt have much problem getting in either. Or if > your mom is a millionaire socialite that you can > pretty much walk through the doors of an Ivy > League school. Not even close to being true.