Is emotional loneliness an "illusion"

oxytocin current general concepts —

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3183515/

Social bonding is essential to species survival since it favors reproduction, protection against predators and environmental changes, and furthers brain development.[12] Exclusion from the group results in individual physical and mental disorders and leads ultimately to death, both in animal models and in primitive human tribes.[13] Oxytocin and its receptors appear to hold the leading position among the candidates for the substance of “happiness.” If not “happiness,” at least it now seems to be an important brain compound in building trust, which is necessary in developing emotional relationships, a process also referred to as social bonding. A recent study by Kosfeld published in Nature has demonstrated that in people playing a money game, a nasal spray of oxytocin raised their trust, even in a stranger.[14] Such findings do bring some hope in the treatment of social disorders such as phobia.[15] Furthermore, oxytocin and its receptors have been found to be involved in a plethora of social and affective, physiological and pathophysiological behaviors, ranging from attachment security, mating, paternal behavior and motherhood to autism and obsessive–compulsive disorder.[12,1620] Indeed, in the Prairie voles, oxytocin released into the brain of the female during sexual activity is important for forming a monogamous pair bond with her sexual partner. Vasopressin appears to have a similar effect in males.[21] Plasma concentrations of oxytocin have been reported to be higher amongst people who claim to be falling in love. Oxytocin injected into the cerebrospinal fluid causes spontaneous penile erections in rats[22] reflecting actions in the hypothalamus and spinal cord. It shows that the “love hormone” can have a role to cause erection during sexual arousal. Arletti and Pedersen separately studied that oxytocin increases sexual receptivity and can counteract impotence.[23] This “cuddle drug” can indeed make partners cuddle up, and can have a larger role in treatment for infertility in future! Can it indeed increase the lust for love? Interestingly, at least two studies have found increases in plasma oxytocin at orgasm—in both men and women.[24,25]

Oxytocin is responsible for bringing in what is specifically called as “maternal behavior.” If oxytocin antagonists are given to sheep and rat females after parturition, they do not exhibit typical maternal behavior. By contrast, virgin female sheep shows maternal behavior toward foreign lambs upon cerebrospinal fluid infusion of oxytocin, which they would not do otherwise.[26]

Many studies done in the past 15 years have tried to study the relationship between autism and oxytocin. In 1998, Modahl et al., in their study found significantly lower levels of oxytocin in blood plasma of autistic children.[27] Five years later, in 2003, Hollander and associates found a decrease in autism spectrum repetitive behaviors when oxytocin was administered intravenously.[28] Further in 2007, in another study Hollander et al., reported that oxytocin helped autistic adults retain the ability to evaluate the emotional significance of speech intonation.[29] More work is definitely required to investigate the role of oxytocin in autism, but present work is definitely showing a ray of hope in finding a role for oxytocin in treatment of autism.

In addition to fundamental insights into the role of oxytocin in the CNS, an increasing number of studies performed recently have shown the importance of oxytocin and its involvement, directly or indirectly, in several pathophysiological disorders in the nervous system and other organs. Oxytocin has been broadly discussed under the following titles: “oxytocin and addiction”; “oxytocin increases trust in humans”; “oxytocin increases generosity in humans”; “search for autism treatments turns to ‘trust hormone’”; “being human: love: neuroscience reveals all”; “oxytocin: the great facilitator of life”.[3034]

Oxytocin does reduce cravings. Kovacs in a study demonstrated that when oxytocin was administered to rodents who were addicted to cocaine, morphine or heroin; the rats opted for less drugs or showed fewer symptoms of withdrawal.[35] Billings recently reported that oxytocin also reduces cravings for sweets. This way, can it emerge as a weight reducing and deaddiction agent? Oxytocin is calming. Even a single rat injected with oxytocin has a calming effect on a cage full of anxious rats.[23] Can it be a silver streak in treatment of anxiety disorders!

Oxytocin has been found to act in pathologic processes far removed from reproduction and nervous system as well. Links have been made between oxytocin administration and injury healing. Vitalo et al., provide evidence that oxytocin injections had a positive influence on wound healing in isolated reared rats.[36] Legros also has reported that oxytocin counteracts the effects of cortisol, the stress hormone.[37] Less stress means increased immunity and faster recovery. This may open up vistas for the use of this hormone in chronic ulcers.

Oxytocin secreted from the pituitary gland cannot re-enter the brain because of the blood-brain barrier. Instead, the behavioral effects of oxytocin are thought to reflect release from centrally projecting oxytocin neurons, different from those that project to the pituitary gland. Oxytocin receptors are expressed by neurons in many parts of the brain and spinal cord, including the amygdala, ventromedial hypothalamus, septum and brainstem. Peripheral, hormonal actions of oxytocin are mediated by specific, high affinity oxytocin receptors. The peripheral actions of oxytocin mainly reflect secretion from the pituitary gland. The letdown reflex and the uterine contractions are both affected this way only. Due to its similarity to vasopressin, oxytocin can reduce the excretion of urine slightly. More important, in several species, oxytocin can stimulate sodium excretion from the kidneys, and in humans, high doses of oxytocin can result in hyponatremia.

You are just trying to rationalize fundamental building blocks of humanity. You can try to reinterpret it anyway you want, but it’s simply incorrect. We know that emotional relationships are very important. Its one of the most important things when judging how long someone will live, for example.

Honestly sometimes you fu.ckers make me want to get an MD to come back and talk real talk, but realize it would probably be the same banter with me posting the same links, with a degree.

Why sorry? It’s a gift from nature.

Realistically I’m more “antisocial personality,” probably not “psycho” as the term is usually used.

This line of thinking seems correct.

It’s just that now you’re getting down into defining, isolating and attributing drivers, at a level that we probably can’t. You’ve created two categories, A) functional genetic programming, “true need” motivating the animal to do what will benefit it, and B) dysfunctional behavior, “false need” perhaps originally meant to carry out a purpose, but the wires got crossed by nature/nurture, and now the person gots problems.

Intuitively this makes sense, because we’ve all met people who would seem to be in the later category. But we don’t know if these are actually separate categories, and we don’t really know when we see “dysfunctional” behavior if it actually is. Or something like that, it gets murky.

yes, I’m uber aware of the social norm that emotional relationships are what life is supposed to be all about. It’s what I see reflected all around me. It just has not been my personal experience that the emotional part of relationships are of much value. Therefore I question the huge gap between what I am supposed to feel and what I actually do. It’s frustrating that I can never find other people that feel this way (and not have it be out of bitterness/ fear of commitments/ stuff like that) I am literally confused.

It could just be your nature (outlier personality type). Women in CFA tend to be more analytical, less emotional, not marry or not be interested in kids (higher testosterone? antisocial personalities? who knows). Outlier personality type explains why one wouldn’t meet other such beings.

Or you could be messed up by childhood trauma and in denial! :grin:

Lol…not the most rigorous diagnosis, but it cheers me up! Thanks :wink:

Glad you are back BTW. Been listening to a lot of Peterson and Bret/ Eric Weinstein. Puts sone of the arguments you have put forth on here over the years into context. Good stuff :+1:

There should be a movie about KMD. I’d watch it. Showgirls meets American psycho meets forest gump.

If there is EVEN ONE cat in this movie… I will sue :neutral_face:

I’m the kind of person that gets lonely without companionship. When I first moved to NYC I had no friends, no gf, no nothing. I remember wanting to go visit Soho for the first time but having no one to go with, so I took the subway by myself and walked around feeling like a lonely loser the whole time. Nowadays with a house full of kids, I rarely have a quiet moment to myself. However once every few weeks I’ll come home to an empty house if I get out of work early and the wife has taken the kids to the museum or something. Even in that hour or two that I’m home alone, I feel an irrational sense of loneliness even though I should view it as a gift of spare time that I have precious little of. That’s the way my brain is wired I guess.

Thanks for sharing that. It is interesting. A while back when I learned there was this thing called “introverts and extroverts” I was excited because it explained how different people’s perception of social experience can be. Then more recently I went through another phase where I thought E and I were pseudo intellectual memes that could be used as self indulgent labels. I mean… how different could we all be? Im not so special after all. It is not a sense of pride I feel for my tendencies… more like it stresses me when I don’t understand why people feel the way they do about their closeness to others.

Then I stop and remember I don’t need to figure everyone out… just me. I calm down and feel happy when I think of my solitary life and how it makes me feel. It is such an honest joy.

I think IHHM is being just as honest. I suppose people REALLY CAN be so different!

Have you experienced something like Mr. Muni Portfolio to even know what you really want ?

This is such a frustrating question. I’m not him. i could never compare his romantic experiences to mine.

All I can do is make the most sense of my own. The pattern has been that I have had strong emotional/ romantic cravings for men in the past. It was not always reciprocated, but in the cases that it was, the relationship would quickly feel like more of a burden than what I would get out of it (and they did not ask for much)…like I was paying for something I did not need. This was a repeated characteristic in multiple relationships. It was always such a relief to be on my own again. The theme has been echoed in lesser intensity bonds, such as friendships. Since I am not anti social and I feel content not having bonds, the simplest explanation is that emotional independence just works for me. My confusion is not related to question of my own peace, but more to not being able to understand why other’s ideal life looks so different.

No one said it has to be romantic

I specified that my patterned experience was not limited to romantic relationships

The ironic thing about this whole thread is that I am seeking external validation for claiming to not need external validation. LOL :wink:

And the fact that you were explicitly happy about interacting with the traders but now are trying to explain it away as some facade

My advice to KMD is to get out of your left brain. You’ll spend your life tying yourself in an intellectual knot and end up with nothing meaningful.

This is odd advice coming from you with your telling people to “get woke” all the time. What is getting “woke” if not examining the norms of society from a independent point of view. It is seeing for yourself if all the ducks line up or not. Original thought is neither left nor right brain. It requires both logic and intuition/ creativity. Im taking a lot of heat for this thread, but at least I am asking questions when “ducks don’t seem to line up” from my point of view.

Now you are evoking imagery of duck human centipede. Truly a deranged individual!