Is this a legal hiring practice?

I came across this today on JobLine and don’t think I’ve seen it before - anywhere. *MUST BE A MEMBER OF A SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH. *

My knee jerk reaction is no.

In Europe, this would definitely not be lagal, unless they’re seeking a new preacher.

LET ME GOOGLE THAT FOR YOU: "The principal federal law upon which employment discrimination claims are often based is Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. This law prohibits covered employers from: -Discriminating against an employee or job applicant because of that person’s race, color, sex, national origin or religion, or -Retaliating against an employee or job applicant for opposing any practice made unlawful by Title VII An employer is covered under Title VII if he or she: -Is engaged in an industry affecting commerce and -Employs 15 or more persons for each workday of each of 20 or more calendar weeks in the current or preceding calendar year -Title VII’s prohibitions apply to hiring and recruitment, discharge, promotion, transfer, job assignment and classification, training and compensation. An exception to Title VII permits discrimination based on sex, religion and national origin where any of these prohibited factors constitutes a bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ) that is reasonably necessary to the normal operation of the business. " My thinking is absolutely not, unless the religious requirement falls under the BFOQ proviso mentioned above. And, to step back from the legal jargon for a second, I would honestly not want to work for an employer that specified that, even if I was Southern Baptist. Ugh.

but honestly, do you really want to work among such people that would make this a requirement? So a small employer (less than 15 people) can do this for example. It does not seem that a person’s religious orientation should be relevant if you were applying to be say CFO of a small church but I’m with SSF, UGH

If it’s a church I believe it’s legal, I think there’s some exemption in the law for religious groups to ensure the employees believe the same thing as the group believes. What is the position and who’s the employer?

Lara-Lilly Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In Europe, this would definitely not be lagal, > unless they’re seeking a new preacher. let me tell you about Europe:

I have to assume that this is an add for a position in a church and I have no problem with them requiring employees to be of their faith. Heck, when I was in Morocco I wasn’t even permitted to walk into the mosques except for the one is Casablanca. I realize not all branches of Islam are as strict and non-muslims can enter most US mosques, but I doubt I’d be high on the list for any job openings.

ONLY if this is a position in a church. Otherwise very Illegal. On a different note, there have been some recent ads stating “Only the currently employed need apply”. What are your thoughts on such ads?

How about American Apparel, where “in order for current AA employees to be approved for a promotion or raise, they must also have their photos approved. As they put it, ‘Your looks determine your position and pay rate, not how effective you are at your job.’”

well you can’t take that equal opportunity policy to an extreme. if i’m hiring for my strip joint, i’d have some requirements. but i fail to see why anyone would specifically demand a female economist. for AA, it’s a little more of a gray area it seems, depending on the position

I’ve often wondered about these sort of ads. Equal opportunity can be taken to the extreme (affirmative action *cough*) but when I see ads in the Middle East with job demands like “must be a male, Muslim, Saudi national” etc etc you begin to appreciate the good ole EEO. I was wondering about another ad. I saw Houlihan Lokey, specifically saying “no 2009 graduates please” for there incoming 2010 IBD hires. Now, graduation date isn’t exactly tied to age (which is probably how they cover their ass legally), and I know banks usually want fresh grads, but does this strike anyone else as *overtly* discriminatory? I feel like they are treading a dangerous line with that one. I’m sure it was put in place to cut down on the number of apps but I love how a 2009 graduate is now too old to become a banker.

marcus phoenix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > On a different note, there have been some recent > ads stating “Only the currently employed need > apply”. What are your thoughts on such ads? Unemployed is not a protected class, so perfectly legal as far as this non-lawyer is concerned. Not exactly a smart position to take though. There are a lot of very qualified people out of work through no fault of their own (other than not realizing that their company was in trouble) and they almost certainly come cheaper than the currently employed. I know the compensation needed to pry me away from my current job is a lot higher than I would accept if I’d been out of work for a few months.

marcus phoenix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > On a different note, there have been some recent > ads stating “Only the currently employed need > apply”. What are your thoughts on such ads? That really does speak incredibly poorly of the employer. Yes, it’s probably legal, but whether or not you are qualified for the job, you have to wonder how smart it is to work for someone who uses such a non-relevant criterion as their first screening tool. I suppose it might make some sense if they are trying to reduce the number of applications from 100s to a few dozen, but it still suggests that the employer is too lazy to sort through a larger number of resumes to get a good candidate (and possibly at a good value).

Don’t know the legality, but I am almost certain I know the firm that you are looking at. (DFW area?) If it is, you dont want the job unless you meet that charactaristic. Its very “buy the book” in that sense.

GuideStone Financial Resources Dallas, TX * *MUST BE A MEMBER OF A SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH. * *Bachelor’s degree with a major in finance, business administration, marketing, management, mathematics, or other related field, preferred. * *CEBS, CFP, CFA, and/or CLU/CFC , preferred * *Series 6 and 63 licenses. * *Proficient PC skills in MS Office and appropriate GuideStone system applications, including GuideStone CRM program. * *Five years experience in financial services, sales and marketing and client service, preferably focused on institutional clients. * *Comprehensive knowledge of and ability to communicate investment management philosophy, investment funds, strategies and processes, retirement plans, executive benefit arrangements and financial planning concepts to institutional executive officers and management in both written and verbal form. * *Working knowledge of sales and management principals. * *Working knowledge of current investment and SEC legal environments. * *Working knowledge of current retirement and pension legal environments. * *General knowledge of industry trends including GuideStone competition and the products and services provided by these competitors. * *Experience in marketing/management, Investment management, employee benefits/retirement plan administration, and/or financial services. * *Public speaking skills with exposure to institutional investments and employee benefit communication with groups or via individual consultation. * *Ability to travel 25% annually. * *Ability to balance travel with GuideStone office work and personal commitments. * *Excellent interpersonal skills with both internal and external customers. * *Strong organizational skills. * *Ability to think analytically. * *Working knowledge of SBC organization, philosophy and history. * *Working knowledge of all GuideStone products and services. * *Total dedication to quality customer service and to developing client relationships. * *Must have complete confidentiality regarding GuideStone business matters. * *Effectively manage travel budget.

Maybe it’s as a personal advisor to church people?

Yes, GuideStone is a financial advisor to retired ministers. So the interesting question is: do you need to be Southern Baptist because they already have Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Eastern Orthodox covered, or do you need to be Southern Baptist because that’s their entire client base. What about Northern Baptist? What about Anabaptist? If a Baptist and an Anabaptist shake hands, do they explode? Can you build a warp engine based on faith?

All- We haven’t a lawyer among us, it seems, so I asked my girlfriend to sound off on this. She’s a current law student, not a lawyer, but I figured that she still probably knows more than the rest of us. She just read the whole thread, as well as the original post and current Title VII case law before sounding off… -Supersadface P.S. You can tell she put on her ASS-KICKING SHOES when she wrote this. From the GF: If GuideStone has more than 15 FTEs (full time employees), then they are covered by the Employment Discrimination provisions of the Civil Rights act of 1964. If it is worth it to you, you should call the EEOC or its state equivalent, and alert them to this language in the job posting. It is patently illegal to require a particular religion unless, as someone above pointed out, they can prove that it is a legitimate requirement of the position. The burden is on the employer to prove that. To be honest, I’m shocked that this job listing got posted on the interwebs. Clearly someone needs to hire internal counsel. They are begging for a federal lawsuit. They’ll lose, too. Most Title VII cases these days involve discrimination that is subtle and behavioral, whether in hiring practices or actual on-the-job. This ad is the proverbial smoking gun. To all of those of you who are feeling disgusted by it, I hope it makes you feel better to know that punitive damages are available in Title VII cases. -SSF’s girlfriend and current federal district court clerk

SSF, When I come to NY, I want to hang out. Brah. -AM