Just CAN'T get a job...

2 things:

1.) (I live in Texas, a right-to-work state. As such, our laws may be different from others.) An employer will NEVER tell you why they didn’t hire you. Maybe they didn’t like the color of your eyes. Maybe they didn’t like your personality. Maybe they thought you wouldn’t be a good cultural “fit”. Maybe there was somebody who was legitimately more qualified. The fact is–you’ll never know. And they will never tell you, because that will only end badly for them. The closest you’ll get is, “We felt like there were other candidates that more appropriately fit the needs of the position.”

2.) I believe that language is like clothing. Sometimes a suit is appropriate, and sometimes Speedos are appropriate. You need to learn to recognize what is appropriate and when. Personally, I feel like people on this forum take some liberties with their language that are NOT appropriate for the time/place, but that’s just me. The boardmembers see it differently. But nonetheless, there are approximately 820,000 words in the English language. Approximately 20 of them are offensive. Can we not use the other 819,980? Is your vocabulary really that small, that it’s difficult to find another word to use?

Wrong, Speedo is never appropriate (on a man).

The Dow is at 15300+.

I don’t think employers need any more hires… I mean, they’re doing this well, why add onto the payroll and squeeze margins?

Only after the current workforce dies or retires significantly will they start hiring. At that point, you will be about 55 years old, if not dead already.

So not much one can do in the New World Order.

It’s a lost generation. It’s sad the see the amount of qualified people unemployed or almost as bad, the amount of ambitious people that don’t get promoted because no one is expanding or retiring.

^yes, for the generation you are speaking of , another unfortunate aspect is that the life (be it career or marriage or even general growth) has become highly competitive, in fact to the extent that it is cut-throat competiton where rules are neither straight nor above board in many cases. It (the competitve situation) being beyond their control, the impact is it makes many of them negative thinking (even in positive situations), impatient and self-doubting - affecting their confidence level as well as outlook towards others in a negative manner. Those who succeed have no complaints, those who can not - protests and criticise the sytem or process ( in worse cases go out witha gun in hand and shoots those innocent ones who have nothing to do with their plight!).

To add to their woes oppertunists individuals and organisation (from recruitment agents to highly placed professional organisations) have come up with many ideas / courses/ offers which promises overcoming this competition with some programmes or schemes( leading to some alphabets at the end of your name) which is supposed to equip one better to face the competition. Number of these programmes and courses are multiplying every day and helpless (and desperate , semi-informed or ignorant or even gullible ) individuals, though already qualified, in the hope of improving their lot are falling pray to such attractions after going thro the beatifully presented websites or printed brochures and reading the feedback of some former students (may be only 5-10 out of thousands they claim to have beniffited from these offerings!). In most cases these promises are vague at the least and totally false at the worst. So, increased frustration is ingrained in such efforts, whether it is passing CFA level 1 or aquiring some lesser known alphabets (which are often raised in this forum too). Who is responsible for this situation is the moot question.

.

Expand a bit on marriage becoming highly competitive. Are you saying it’s harder to find someone today? If so, I disagree. People are just more picky and comfortable in their single lifestyle.

Some people are making millions though. That makes it all better, doesn’t it?

Just to kind of expand on this, I think we’re going to see continued gaps between haves and have nots in society with income growth and the good jobs sticking with the people who are already there. Upward socio-economic mobility is getting more difficult with the increased costs of university, burdensome debt, lack of good paying jobs, and limited upward career mobility. Figuring out how to successfully navigate that is going to be crucial for obtaining a secure career and future.

Although I’m an econ and finance guy, sometimes I like to get in touch with my social side. At my age tons of people are getting engaged and married and I think that household formations will continue to increase what I’ve already said because people tend to get with people who are like them, so people with good careers will probably marry similar types, and people who have sh*tty jobs aren’t likely to attract and retain a spouse with a solid future that could help raise them and their eventual family up the social ladder.

@former trader said, “Expand a bit on marriage becoming highly competitive. Are you saying it’s harder to find someone today? If so, I disagree. People are just more picky and comfortable in their single lifestyle.

First let me expand on your first part. Increase in ‘competition’ whether in marketing or selling a product (successfully being able to achieve the sales target) or marketing talent for job or specific task (leading to a fruitful and mutually satisfying job or contract for a reasonably assured period) or in this case succeeding in finding a life partner (by converting a relationship into a successful marriage) simply means two things. First, a lesser freedom of choice or flexibility due to more compromise and adjustments needed to meet (or knock off) the competition and , secondly, decrease in the ‘guarantee’ element of permanence and/or durability and retention of the achieved results /status. For the first two elements i.e. marketing /selling and job these are obvious, the debilitating impact of markedly high competition may have lead to on one hand, as bchad points out, “some people making millions” (how much of it is by what means, ethical or otherwise, is a different question altogether as increased competitiveness makes more people meeting the challenge of seemingly unfair competition by cutting corners - more often than not leading to more and more ‘bubble bursts’ and scandals of mega magnitude and enormous job-losses) on the other hand has played havoc with simple and dignified aspirations of many deserving individuals who are disadvantaged purely because of the pressure of high competition which is often unreasonable or inconsistent with the gains (due to whatever reasons it may be from recession to use of ever changing latest technology to outsourcing for cheap labour and more profit or even as a result of wrong policies of any country’s governance). The fact remains it helps a few but hinders (by delaying to totally obstructing) a reasonable chance of success to many more (the OP is a typical example of that!).

Similar is the impact on the institution of ‘marriage’ – what started as a means of leaving together till ‘death part us’ to a simple contract of convenience with business like dealing with pre-defined terms of contract. This reflects both the signs of increased stiff ‘competition’ stated above, i.e. a lesser freedom of choice or flexibility and decrease in the ‘guarantee’ element of permanence and/or durability and retention of the achieved status. The increasing number of single mothers ( as the case of ’single fathers’ is not so much felt in developed and developing societies due to social and economic reasons – though it is no less identifiable) and breaking marriages accompanied by ‘lesser’ duration of married status (see any study on divorces in the current period in any country) are all indications of the impact of undue increase in competitiveness to “remain happily married”. @Krazy kanuck has rightly highlighted the same by pointing out that the increased competition even in the ‘marriage market’ has put the less competitive ones reducing their ability to “attract and retain a spouse with a solid future that could help raise them and their eventual family up the social ladder” even if they are otherwise equally competent or able to do so in a lesser competitive environment (which must have been the case till a few years back). It is not a mere question of increase in the number of ‘household formation’ but more of a question of social stability (stable family systems leads to growth of the nation as the family is the basic unit of growth of a nation), long-term values (increasing permanence of relationship and mutual trust only cultivate values in the next generation) and sustainable culture (when every one is more bothered about fulfilling the ‘minimum’ parameters of the marriage contract like a business deal rather than human relationship for social cause – culture of the group is the first casualty). All these aspects made me feel I should mention career and marriage as affected aspects of ‘life’ when we talk of increasingly cut-throat competition of today.

Now your question , “Are you saying it’s harder to find someone today?” The answer is yes and no, depending on who is looking for the ‘somone’. Above @Krazy kanuck has rightly highlighted the same by pointing out that the increased competition even in the ‘marriage market’ has put the less competitive ones reducing their ability to “attract and retain a spouse with a solid future that could help raise them and their eventual family up the social ladder” even if they are otherwise equally competent or able to do so in a lesser competitive environment (which must have been the case till a few years back). Moreover, it may not be harder for someone (gay or straight does not matter) to find ‘someone’ who is somewhat the type of human being one is looking for as a partner for some time or even as a ‘live in’ partner but when it comes to looking for someone with whom you wish to spend the life with reasonable happiness and dignity it is certainly more difficult due to limiting choice ‘within your strata’ as it is more or less defined by the degree of competitiveness in the society you are part of.

“If so, I disagree. People are just more picky and comfortable in their single lifestyle” – what is their to disagree! As long as one is comfortable in single life he has not entered the competition so for him there is no competition and hence for him the social (market) conditions becomes irrelevant. If you are not in the job market and would prefer to do nothing or do own venture it does not matter how competitive is the job market (though in the later case success of your venture will directly depend on the competitiveness of the market of your service /product.)

Yes, people have become just more picky. But why? To stay in the competition (believe it or not one’s family and partner has more +ve or –ve influence on one’s competitiveness even in job market much more than before – think about it or ask some one who simply could not accept attractive propositions just because of partner’s or family limitations, you will realise) and the fear of losing out makes them more cautious and hence more picky.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way- in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

There were a king with a large jaw and a queen with a plain face, on the throne of England; there were a king with a large jaw and a queen with a fair face, on the throne of France. In both countries it was clearer than crystal to the lords of the State preserves of loaves and fishes, that things in general were settled for ever.

It was the year of Our Lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy-five. Spiritual revelations were conceded to England at that favoured period, as at this. Mrs. Southcott had recently attained her five-and-twentieth blessed birthday, of whom a prophetic private in the Life Guards had heralded the sublime appearance by announcing that arrangements were made for the swallowing up of London and Westminster. Even the Cock-lane ghost had been laid only a round dozen of years, after rapping out its messages, as the spirits of this very year last past (supernaturally deficient in originality) rapped out theirs. Mere messages in the earthly order of events had lately come to the English Crown and People, from a congress of British subjects in America: which, strange to relate, have proved more important to the human race than any communications yet received through any of the chickens of the Cock-lane brood.

France, less favoured on the whole as to matters spiritual than her sister of the shield and trident, rolled with exceeding smoothness down hill, making paper money and spending it. Under the guidance of her Christian pastors, she entertained herself, besides, with such humane achievements as sentencing a youth to have his hands cut off, his tongue torn out with pincers, and his body burned alive, because he had not kneeled down in the rain to do honour to a dirty procession of monks which passed within his view, at a distance of some fifty or sixty yards. It is likely enough that, rooted in the woods of France and Norway, there were growing trees, when that sufferer was put to death, already marked by the Woodman, Fate, to come down and be sawn into boards, to make a certain movable framework with a sack and a knife in it, terrible in history. It is likely enough that in the rough outhouses of some tillers of the heavy lands adjacent to Paris, there were sheltered from the weather that very day, rude carts, bespattered with rustic mire, snuffed about by pigs, and roosted in by poultry, which the Farmer, Death, had already set apart to be his tumbrils of the Revolution. But that Woodman and that Farmer, though they work unceasingly, work silently and no one heard them as they went about with muffled tread: the rather, forasmuch as to entertain any suspicion that they were awake, was to be atheistical and traitorous.

In England, there was scarcely an amount of order and protection to justify much national boasting. Daring burglaries by armed men, and highway robberies, took place in the capital itself every night; families were publicly cautioned not to go out of town without removing their furniture to upholsterers’ warehouses for security; the highwayman in the dark was a City tradesman in the light, and, being recognised and challenged by his fellow-tradesman whom he stopped in his character of “the Captain,” gallantly shot him through the head and rode away; the mail was waylaid by seven robbers, and the guard shot three dead, and then got shot dead himself by the other four, “in consequence of the failure of his ammunition:” after which the mail was robbed in peace; that magnificent potentate, the Lord Mayor of London, was made to stand and deliver on Turnham Green, by one highwayman, who despoiled the illustrious creature in sight of all his retinue; prisoners in London gaols fought battles with their turkeys, and the majesty of the law fired blunderbusses in among them, loaded with rounds of shot and ball; thieves snipped off diamond crosses from the necks of noble lords at Court drawing-rooms; musketeers went into St. Giles’s, to search for contraband goods, and the mob fired on the musketeers, and the musketeers fir on the mob, and nobody thought any of these occurrences much out of the common way. In the midst of them, the hangman, ever busy and ever worse than useless, was in constant requisition; now, stringing up long rows of miscellaneous criminals; now, hanging a housebreaker on Saturday who had been taken on Tuesday; now, burning people in the hand at Newgate by the dozen, and now burning pamphlets at the door of Westminster Hall; to-day, taking the life of an atrocious murderer, and to-morrow of a wretched pilferer who had robbed a farmer’s boy of sixpence.

All these things, and a thousand like them, came to pass in and close upon the dear old year one thousand seven hundred and seventy-five. Environed by them, while the Woodman and the Farmer worked unheeded, those two of the large jaws, and those other two of the plain and the fair faces, trod with stir enough, and carried their divine rights with a high hand. Thus did the year one thousand seven hundred and seventy-five conduct their Greatnesses, and myriads of small creatures- the creatures of this chronicle among the rest- along the roads that lay before them.

IT WAS the Dover road that lay, on a Friday night late in November, before the first of the persons with whom this history has business. The Dover road lay, as to him, beyond the Dover mail, as it lumbered up Shooter’s Hill. He walked up hill in the mire by the side of the mail, as the rest of the passengers did; not because they had the least relish for walking exercise, under the circumstances, but because the hill, and the harness, and the mud, and the mail, were all so heavy, that the horses had three times already come to a stop, besides once drawing the coach across the road, with the mutinous intent of taking it back to Blackheath. Reins and whip and coachman and guard, however, in combination, had read that article of war which forbade a purpose otherwise strongly in favour of the argument, that some brute animals are endued with Reason; and the team had capitulated and returned to their duty.

With drooping heads and tremulous tails, they mashed their way through the thick mud, floundering and stumbling between whiles, as if they were falling to pieces at the larger joints. As often as the driver rested them and brought them to a stand, with a wary “Wo-ho! so-ho-then!” the near leader violently shook his head and everything upon it- like an unusually emphatic horse, denying that the coach could be got up the hill. Whenever the leader made this rattle, the passenger started, as a nervous passenger might, and was disturbed in mind.

There was a steaming mist in all the hollows, and it had roamed in its forlornness up the hill, like an evil spirit, seeking rest and finding none. A clammy and intensely cold mist, it made its slow way through the air in ripples that visibly followed and overspread one another, as the waves of an unwholesome sea might do. It was dense enough to shut out everything from the light of the coach-lamps but these its own workings, and a few yards of road; and the reek of the labouring horses steamed into it, as if they had made it all.

Two other passengers, besides the one, were plodding up the hill by the side of the mail. All three were wrapped to the cheekbones and over the cars, and wore jack-boots. Not one of the three could have said, from anything he saw, what either of the other two was like; and each was hidden under almost as many wrappers from the eyes of the mind, as from the eyes of the body, of his two companions. In those days, travellers were very shy of being confidential on a short notice, for anybody on the road might be a robber or in league with robbers. As to the latter, when every posting-house and ale-house could produce somebody in “the Captain’s” pay, ranging from the landlord to the lowest stable nondescript, it was the likeliest thing upon the cards. So the guard of the Dover mail thought to himself, that Friday night in November, one thousand seven hundred and seventy-five, lumbering up Shooter’s Hill, as he stood on his own particular perch behind the mail, beating his feet, and keeping an eye and a hand on the arm-chest before him, where a loaded blunderbuss lay at the top of six or eight loaded horse-pistols, deposited on a substratum of cutlass.

The Dover mail was in its usual genial position that the guard suspected the passengers, the passengers suspected one another and the guard, they all suspected everybody else, and the coachman was sure of nothing but the horses; as to which cattle he could with a clear conscience have taken his oath on the two Testaments that they were not fit for the journey.

“Wo-ho!” said the coachman. “So, then! One more pull and you’re at the top and be damned to you, for I have had trouble enough to get you to it!- Joe!”

“Halloa!” the guard replied.

“What o’clock do you make it, Joe?”

“Ten minutes, good, past eleven.”

“My blood!” ejaculated the vexed coachman.

http://www.literature.org/authors/dickens-charles/two-cities/book-01/chapter-02.html

Hah, I see what you did there

We have diagnosed the problem, but what is the solution? It seems like both the left and the right don’t have it (redistribution and trickle down economics).

I am afraid to say that we are on a path that will culminate with no need for a solution.

Regardless of credentials/experience… without employability, I will soon slip into the cracks. The chance of somebody like myself, marrying some girl with a solid career or into a secure family is .0001 as you stated… for me to procreate would be irresponsible…

It’s a twisted Darwinism we are experiencing… many on top, are not the brightest or the cream of the crop, vice versa those on the bottom but to a much lesser extent…

The top will have enough diversity to avoid extinction… the bottom will lack this necessary amount of diversity, and will become extinct.

It’s the bottom that keeps procreating. The top don’t want more than 1 child.

True. Not so much an emphasis on procreation, as to an altogether new form of a great divide that is in motion now. The normal plebians will continue like they always do, not aware, not able to be aware. They are safe. The new Divide is not amongst ‘rich and poor’.

I believe it’s about intellect and the two outcomes.

Meh… it’s raining out, so I just got a six pack of bud light. Some hummus and some bread. And some good music.

Well deserved after another practice exam.

True story. I feel like most upper middle class families tend to have 2, maybe 3 kids. Kids are effing expensive and what’s the marginal benefit beyond 2 or 3? Where as when I drive to work past the sketchy apartments (I hope to see torn down in the future), I see a woman walking alone with a small pack of ankle biters as she pushes a double stroller. I really don’t want to sound like an ass, but hey if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck… maybe free birth control pills for women would be a good thing for society to subsidize.

As to the solution, I think we really need financial education in high school. Kids who get it, get it trickle down from parents. I remember sitting at the table when my dad or mom wrote out and sent checks for the monthly bills (pre e-bill days). Financial cluelessness is everywhere. I can’t even count the number of title and payday loan places I see, places that actually advertise check cashing for a fee, etc. Also, I think showing people what the costs of kids, compound interest… the basics that we all understand would help the people who have never been shown. Also we need to get the government out of student loans and make the average salaries and % employed at graduation by major very in your face so people going into uni know it.

Anyway about jobs and getting people employed, we have open jobs, but there is a mismatch of available jobs and the people to fill them. I hear all the time at industry events there is a lack of US talent, mainly in engineering fields. I was at an event last month and a recruiter spoke (from a major oil field services company) and he said 60% of the engineering students they interviewed needed H1B visas to work here. That’s insane…

Trickle down ain’t working, but employees are becoming so expensive in the US. Between payroll taxes, impending Obamacare which is going to skyrocket health insurance costs, etc. I think we need to really reform taxes in the US. The child tax credits encourage baby making (see above) and in general, the more mouths to feed, the more the govt pays you. Not that Canada’s any different in that regard, the GST credit and all that gets larger if you have more kids.

@former trader said, “We have diagnosed the problem, but what is the solution? “

The solution will remain elusive as long as “materialistic wealth”, “cash in hand & bank” and “size of the car” is the scale of measure of development and ‘advancement’ ignoring all other humanistic concerns . Both socialist redistribution of wealth of the nation and capitalist approach where only the acquisition of wealth matters more than the means, are practiced without any concern for real human needs and a balanced approach to growth and prosperity as a goal for individual and the nation. Finding a balance between prosperity (which often is wrongly equated with development) of the nation and positive growth of the society benefiting all individuals irrespective of economic, social and personal status . It may be noted that we are not talking of equality but of equity as equality sounds good only as a motto or in the constitution but is too utopian (just like left and right thoughts are) to be really achieve within one or two generations.

Either of total ‘leftist’or ‘rightist’, if adopted as the sole policy of governance or national objective, is too utopian (read ‘impractical’ or too ‘idealistic’ ) for real ground level implementation leading to sustainable growth with justice . That is why you strongly feel, and rightly so, that “ It seems like both the left and the right don’t have it (redistribution and trickle down economics).”

Surprisingly this has been the concern not only today but thro’ the history in one form or other. That is why perhaps the social reformers (be it Christ or Buddha or even Gandhi and Martin Luther King in modern era ) are respected and remain in general reminiscence more than the greatest and most powerful President or leaders irrespective of some of them winning wars or imposing their nation’s will on weaker nations even by war. Why? Because real development and growth has to be commensurate with individual’s well-being leading to social stability, increase in ethical standards and equitable distribution of opportunities (not jobs only) . Neither the left nor the right give due weightage to the fact that the humanity always values human welfare and growth through measures which necessarily does not depend only on measure of GDP or national debt or even employment statistics. As long as success is defined by the measure of materialistic norms and governance and policy making of the nations are in the hands of unscrupulous politicians with myopic vision of remaining in the chair (from left or right , democratically elected or dictator - does not matter) we may not see the effective long term solutions to the diagnosed problem which is sustainable, except for patch-work and temporary ups and downs in the situation.

I think the comments here are a little overdone w/ respect to marriage. Even if you have regional discrepencies, unlike jobs, supply and demand for available males and females should never be widely out of balance.

That said, I think the dynamics have changed a bit. A significant number of girls that I know aren’t interested in kids (unsurprisingly, these ones tend to be career driven). Maybe their minds will change (I’m 24) when they hit 30. Also, a good number of people in this forum in their late 20’s and early 30’s make it seem like the gender in demand switches in the late 20’s.

Fell asleep twice while going through the thread. Thank you, mygos.

I know a HCB that is very career driven and is very successful. In her mid 20s she didn’t want any kids. She just celebrated her 30th birthday last month. Now she tells me she can’t stand the constant pressure of work. Her goal now is to have kids while being a housewife. Of course, she is implicitly stating that she is looking for a BSD to allow her to stay home and continue to have the same lifestyle.

I felt to tell her that you missed the train. Most BSDs will want to hookup with girls that are in their 20s.