I don’t get it. Women, what are your thoughts? Wall street guys, what is your honest view? To the wall street women on here: would you recommend a career on wall street? The statistics: In the past 10 years, 2.6% of female workers in finance, left the industry. The ranks of men grew by 9.6%. The number of women between aged 20-35 dropped by 16.5%, while the number of men in that age range grew by 7.3%. The number of women entering finance-industry jobs at age 20 to 24 fell 21.8% over the past decade. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704858304575498071732136704.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
I can’t imagine coming to work and not seeing women around. That would be so depressing !! :))
I’ve worked a bit on macro HF and in more senior positions in private banking and I’ve worked with some groups that are over half female and with some that are all male. The biggest thing I’ve noticed is that after they are in a committed relationship it is much less likely for men to leave to start a totally new career because they have people expecting/depending on them to continue to bring in the same paycheck and that is not possible (without unacceptable risk) with most other careers that are available. When women leave for a new career they have typically had some greater financial or emotional support. So, typical gender roles persist. That is for people already in finance though. For people entering finance, I think to a certain extent it is just simple herd following: how many men do you know entering nursing or being buyer/store managers to fashion chains?
The article explains probably causes, such as: “Across the economy, computers have replaced junior, back-office workers, jobs that were largely filled by women.”
SheFA, Hi. Are you stalking me?
I don’t think there is any gender discrimination in finance, it has more to do with psychological characteristics, specially in capital markets.
Serious response here, even though I know that isn’t as much fun. I think there are a few reasons: 1) Discrimination is real 2) Finance is a pretty solitary activity relative to some other careers (for example, there is very little peer interaction in research), and most women seem to like more social interaction in their jobs 3) It’s easier to make a girl cry, so there are cultural issues at some firms. The place I work doesn’t hire girls, for example, because they would probably cry all the time (I’ve seen some of the dudes cry as well, so that isn’t supposed to be a sexist comment, it’s just a brutal place to work). Nobody wants to make a girl cry. 4) Hard to get into the industry, hard to get back in if you exit. The mom factor.
Ok, we all agree that there is some discrimination in finance. There might also be some cultural standard that causes women to voluntarily withdraw from finance jobs at some point. This explains why there are fewer women in finance than men. However, it doesn’t explain why the female/male ratio is *decreasing*. The article contains some plausible explanations for this second thing.
Interesting thoughts. Bromion, well done cross-referencing your arguments. 3) “The place I work doesn’t hire girls, for example, because they would probably cry all the time.” clearly confirms 1). “Discrimination is real.” To Asset Management: Why, should I not stalk you? I look forward to read more responses. All serious observations will be considered for representativeness heuristics.
My mentor within the bank I work for (ie. one of the people that went up to bat for me, and one of the most powerful people within the bank) is a woman. My boss is a woman and she knows how to break someone down. Sometimes I will screw something up and she lays into me pretty hardcore. I love it, but it’s hard to fight back; with a guy I know I can just start screaming back at him, whatever. With a woman though I am not sure if there will be underlying tension/resentment. Having grown up playing sports I treat most guys with a “leave it on the field” attitude. I can be near fist fights with a bro then not care a minute later because…I don’t know, it’s what guys do. I just feel like that same situation would never play out with a woman. Not that I do not enjoy working for a woman. She is very understanding and much more caring than a male boss would be. On the flipside, I can’t stroll into her office, plop down on the chair and shoot the sh1t with her.
@SheFA: You should join SEC!
I would say all-in-all; My boss, is an excellent teacher. She knows her stuff and I would say can apply it better than anyone I’ve met in this office and elsewhere. She could run a hedge fund. Really an incredible woman and certainly pulls off things men couldn’t do. Like manage a large family, 1000 client relationships and a boatload of money all while keeping a relatively cool head and finding time to teach me. Women in the workplace can do a lot more, it’s just, perhaps, not as evident.
Haha, you can stop sucking up now Asset_M. I am not your boss. Bernanke - Huh? Did you just want me to google “sec women”? Impressive melons, those.
At the prop firm I worked at, though it was never discussed, I think they would find something wrong w/ every resume from a woman. It was an all male office, which made for hilarious jokes, salty language, and frat boy pranks…the flip side of that fun would be lawsuits if a woman was hired. I think a lot of firms, especially the smaller ones w/out a corporate culture, would just prefer to lose the upside of a smart ambitious woman in order to avoid the issues of having to accomidate them.
SheFA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Bromion, well done cross-referencing your > arguments. > 3) “The place I work doesn’t hire girls, for > example, because they would probably cry all the > time.” clearly confirms 1). “Discrimination is > real.” Uh oh, we have an angry feminist here! Either you took this out of context intentionally, or you have poor logical reasoning skills, which is often true for women (the discrimination is real for a reason). Actually, on that note, can you even name one successful woman on Wall St.? I can’t.
SheFA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Haha, you can stop sucking up now Asset_M. I am > not your boss. > Who’s kissing up?
^ Ahh, didn’t mean to hurt your feelings, Bromion. I just thought it was an interesting example of discrimination by your employer. Which it is. So is PeteyPete’s story. But now I am inclined to believe you actually think that the cry factor and the logic factor are appropriate reasons not to hire women. Maybe I actually would like to hurt your feelings just a little bit now. Does that make me an angry feminist?
And here is the CRUX of the debate. If a woman gets snappy at a dude, BOTH SIDES get emotional. If a dude gets snappy with a dude, they fight, then have a bromantic brew together.
bromion Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- or you > have poor logical reasoning skills, which is often > true for women You actually believe that?! Hmm and you seemed intelligent to me…
@Asset M: And here is the CRUX of the debate. If a woman gets snappy at a dude, BOTH SIDES get emotional. Just because I would like to hurt bromion a little doesn’t mean I’m being emotional. @krnyc2008 - Yeah I too thought he was smart. He probably is. Maybe he needs some more exposure to, you know, women. There, I hurt him a little.