SheFA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My mother was > turned down for business school specifically > because she was a woman, was sent to house-wife > school instead and married a farmer. Now we know why she has a chip on her shoulder the size of Ukraine.
SheFA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Equal opportunities does not mean equal outcomes. smartest thing you’ve ever said > I thought unwritten policies of not hiring women and > some of the views expressed here had pretty much > died out decades ago. they exist everywhere, not just US, Lon, Fr, etc. check out Russia and Japan. > I was (am still) curious > about potential causes behind the declining number > of women on wall street. maybe they were all closet Martha Stewarts? we’re not socialist so we don’t tie people into jobs for their lifetime. > I expected some unforeseen negatives, but did not expect these > types of responses and observations. Culture shock I guess. no one is really taking this seriously, so you shouldn’t be taking the response seriously. > I’m glad I did this in silico experiment to test > the US waters. It’s cheap and perhaps even > effective. I can see my attitude toward this > subject and these issues would not serve me well > in the US. Thanks all for enlightening me. I hope > things get better. very cheap, in fact. things are better in the US than in any other part of the world. like i said earlier, you’re obviosly not American or you would have sue’d someone already. in America, you can sue a company on the grounds that you are not hired, passed over for a role you are qualified for, or fired purely because of a viable bias (gender, race, ethnicity, handicap, etc.). this ability makes it much more costly for companies, especially large ones, to hire, promote, and fire fairly, which gives all applicants/workers a ‘bias free’ chance. (how well this actually works is debated, but the system is in place) cases on gender bias happen regularly. there was a case a while ago where a female trader sue’d her employer because her manager introduced her as the “Pamela Anderson” of trading. last week goldman was sue’d on gender bias and i think morgan stanley was sue’d not too long ago. what makes this system better? we bring these cases, try them, and make public the results. everyone can see the outcomes and society reacts. not too many other societies can pride themselves in their openness of these issues. links: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/jan/10/genderissues http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2019422,00.html http://www.kamalsinha.com/morganstanley/ > Adieu. > SheFA. ciao
Inner Evil Voice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > SheFA Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > My mother was > > turned down for business school specifically > > because she was a woman, was sent to house-wife > > school instead and married a farmer. > > Now we know why she has a chip on her shoulder the > size of Ukraine. $50 says she’s nordic
I really just want to get connected with her. She sounds like a BSD(V?)
Majority of my peers in business school, CFA classes, etc… were dominated by males. I usually find most women are uninterested in finance. I would like to see a counter study of the number of males say in HR, PR, consulting & marketing compared to females. I suspect the numbers would be quite different. Most women I encountered, even those initially interested in finance (including my former colleagues), tended to become more interested in those areas. That said, I find it hard to believe that there isn’t discrimination going on. I also know that the environment can get quite vulgar towards women. However, I do get sick of hearing this same old story that its all discrimination to blame and men trying to put women down. Its kinda like the studies you hear about with minorities. I’m sure there is discrimination, but to pin it all on that is completely unjustified.
ASSet_MANagement Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I really just want to get connected with her. She > sounds like a BSD(V?) BSV? A new term for a feminist era on WS? Will women traders like being called BSV?
Is finance the new engineering?
Good contribution to the industry, Asset. The prevalent term could be BSC maybe? V is too formal.
Or BSP, could apply to both male and female.
This thread has gone off on a tangent, as usual. One who has skilfully juggled a female-sounding user id on this forum is (was) Mrs Bambi, CFA, if any of you guys can recall. One reason to choose a male-sounding user id on this particular internet forum is to aviod getting comments about, say, melons or babies if you were to post something like this: “It is clearly so that the mortgage is 30 year mortgage, 30x12. In the second paragraph it says, WAM(weighted average maturity) of 356. This implies it is 4 months old.” So that’s a good reason to have multiple ID:s to choose from. You, SheFA, may want to take a look at this: http://www.amazon.com/Selling-Women-Short-Gender-Street/dp/0691126437/ Funny someone said “non-shaver = dealbreaker” – at times I’ve heard the opposite argument; one CEO (buy side) argued to hire smart women to do the negotiations so as to put the other guys out of ease therefore making a worse deal for themselves and better for your own firm. Talk about being emotionally driven! Maybe that’s part of the reason why bromion heard his male colleagues cry and sob in their offices later on…
Who is Mrs Bambi?
Valores Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Who is Mrs Bambi? she covers the lumber/logging industry
MehdiOchre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Funny someone said “non-shaver = dealbreaker” – > at times I’ve heard the opposite argument; one CEO > (buy side) argued to hire smart women to do the > negotiations so as to put the other guys out of > ease therefore making a worse deal for themselves > and better for your own firm. Talk about being > emotionally driven! Maybe that’s part of the > reason why bromion heard his male colleagues cry > and sob in their offices later on… All kidding aside, I agree with this. The firm I used to work for hired an attractive 30 something blonde cheerleader with a CFA for the firm’s institutional sales desk. She covered the accounts that held shares in ICOS, the company that was partially responsible for developing Cialis, the erectile dysfunction drug. Basically, part of her job was to go meet with old white men who were portfolio managers and try to sell them on Icos as a good investment (based on a buy rating from the analyst covering the stock). The firm did a great commission business in those shares. As for the crying thing, people seem to be all bent out of shape over that. The rumours about some firms on Wall St. being run by abusive managers who use “colorful language” and throw things is true. I can’t see a girl in that sort of situation, 1) because most girls probably wouldn’t WANT to be there, and 2) because no one wants to make a girl cry (try yelling at someone and have them break down in tears in front of you… that will make you feel like an a-hole pretty fast) – if your management style is to lean on people as hard as possible, you are less likely to hire women, if only because you don’t want to feel bad about being aggressive. The point was not that girls spontaneously start crying all the time over nothing. Some people here are twisting my original comment way out of context for their own agendas (and you wonder why some people are biased against women – stop trying to ruin everything with your feminist slant, it’s counter productive).
I know I officially left you all with much drama - But this one was just too good to let go: The Girl With a Chip on Her Shoulder Certain to be a Failure in Every Walk of Life — Be Careful at All Costs. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0E16FF355517738DDDAC0894D9415B818DF1D3 Stuck in time for 99 years. Way to go, United States of America! Now that I’m here, I may as well say that for once I kind of agree with Bromion. Thanks for the clarification. Decent folks will opt out of an abusive work environment. Some will stay. It may be reasonable to assume fewer women than men would stay. The management strategy sounds crazy however. Does it really lead to level headed decisions? Improve the bottom line? Without corrupting people? Without leading to a narrow focus on short term results and out-sized risk taking? Random new recruit following 6 months of abuse: “I’m outta here asap in any case, but as I am here now I WILL have a shot at bringing home big bucks. Tails I win, heads this @#¤#¤¤ company loses.” Women and men, seriously, there are work places in the world, including in the most competitive financial segments, that are equitable and not a constant pressure cooker environment. For the record: I never said women weren’t opting out / refraining from opting in voluntarily. I never said there should be as many women as men in finance. I have never felt appraised differently from men. I also never said women and men are the same or made the same choices in life. I did voice an opinion that there is no basis to presume well-qualified and motivated women will underperform in the financial sector, when given the same opportunities as their male counterparts. And that from the responses on this thread it does not sound like such equal opportunities are on offer much in the US finance sector, save perhaps in some segments. I pointed out repeatedly that this is in contrast to my own experience. If that makes me a rabid extreme feminist frothing at the mouth in your eyes, fine. Just stop pinning opinions on me. Damn, I did it again - what a waste of time. I feel like I’m trying to get the klu klux klan to appreciate my friend Hassan.
Do you have cats in your appartment by any chance, SheFA?
Inner Evil Voice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How many pussies in your apt, > SheFA? FTFY
Going to continue sitting this one out- just thought the last couple of kitty posts were humorous.
She’s not European, I can bet my money on that!
I urge SheFA to stay! SheFA, you posts are interesting, and it would be nice to read your arguments on other threads. Your addition to AF’s poster’s portfolio would be great in terms of diversification of perspectives already existing on AF. Whatever everyone might say, no one hates you here. But if you can’t handle different perspectives and AF’s sense of humor (which you will start liking after some time if you stay), then it’s really sad for AF. Recently AF lost one of it’s most beloved poster, it would be really sad to loose someone again.
Bernanke Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I urge SheFA to stay! > > SheFA, you posts are interesting, and it would be > nice to read your arguments on other threads. Your > addition to AF’s poster’s portfolio would be great > in terms of diversification of perspectives > already existing on AF. Whatever everyone might > say, no one hates you here. But if you can’t > handle different perspectives and AF’s sense of > humor (which you will start liking after some time > if you stay), then it’s really sad for AF. > > Recently AF lost one of it’s most beloved poster, > it would be really sad to loose someone again. QQQbee?