For a non-finance undergrad who is working in consulting/industry, etc. what options (short & long term) would an M.A. in Accounting open up? In 10 years I’d like to be in a place where I’m an investor who either individually or with a PE firm buys and sells companies. I noticed that USC has a nice 1-2 year program and was curious if its something to consider. Or, is there a better road to take?
finseeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > For a non-finance undergrad who is working in > consulting/industry, etc. what options (short & > long term) would an M.A. in Accounting open up? Jobs in accounting firms. Not PE. Trust me on that.
You could get a CPA and have a fine career as an accountant (just like my GrandDad who worked for ATT for 42 years as an accountant and then they gave him a gold watch. Fake. Cheap bastards).
Things have changed since your grandpa Joey, at least in Canada. As of 2007, the average income of a CA was $186,544 with a median of $123,000. Average when individual has both CA and CFA is $287,588. Granted there will arguments about outliers and what not income is ok and if he wants to do M.A in accounting and gets expertise in bankruptcy, valuation and restructuring he is fine for what he wants to do. (All figures Canadian) http://cica.ems01.com/CASource/compensation_survey_2007.pdf
Wow, so your average Canadian CA makes almost as much as a physician in Canada.
Too bad they don’t publish the distribution of those incomes…or mention how old the CA population is in Canada.
So, I’m guessing that a Masters in Accounting doesn’t carry too well into the investment world?
commstudent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Too bad they don’t publish the distribution of > those incomes…or mention how old the CA > population is in Canada. I didn’t take a full look at the report, but I believe I saw the figure that 61% were under 45 or something along those lines. The only thing I know for sure is that the partners at my firm make way, way, way more than that. Plus, when they retire they become board members and rake in stock options.
Yeah, typical CPA in America is making like 70k.
that figure for CA is skewed. no way they make that much. they also displayed the mean for CFA to be like 250k. don’t believe all of it. dont’ just look at the figures. They tell you in the their methodology section how they conducted their surveys which gives you clues that their results are skewed and bias. there is first of selection bias. the response rate for their online survey was 35%. I think that figure itself tells you who responded. Secondly, the accuracy of the results cannot be verified, though I will admit that people lying on something like a random survey has little effect. Thirdly, they sent out 51k request, but there are over 90k CAs at least. Though you can use the law of large numbers, you also have to consider why they choose the ones they did, perhaps they were more accessible since they were the more prominent CAs. there are other reasons to believe that number they gave is not completely accurate and no one should base their career on those figures. I saw a figure which i believe is more plausible, 90k.
Stats aside, CFA+CA (CPA) is supposed to be a good combination in any event.
finseeker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So, I’m guessing that a Masters in Accounting > doesn’t carry too well into the investment world? Nope. Unless you’re talking about back office (and I’m not dissing back office).
Danteshek Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > finseeker Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > So, I’m guessing that a Masters in Accounting > > doesn’t carry too well into the investment > world? > > Nope. Unless you’re talking about back office > (and I’m not dissing back office). I disagree. having a master level of knowledge of accounting will contribute handily when you’re evaluating companies through their financials. Being able to decipher through accounting statements is an invaluable skill. In terms of getting a job, I can’t comment. But accounting skills are definitely valuable, just as much as the ability to guage the effectiveness of management. I would definitely like to improve my accounting knowledge.
I am a CPA and have passed level 1 of CFA and have a public accounting background and can say that I have found it almost impossible to get into anything investment related as I am pegged to the accounting roles. I have a Master’s in Finance (not an MBA however) from Texas A&M (undergrad in accounting) and basically anything truely finance I have found it hard to even get interviews. Thus why I started CFA (I have posted this as its own thread the other day for advice, but no takers…so if ANYONE wants to offer opinions I would appreciate it). From a knowledge standpoint, yes, the accounting will help a TON on financial statement analysis…but from outside perspective I dont think it has helped at all (I actually tutor some MBA students in Financial statement analysis). So at least for me accounting degree/background (if you equate CPA to a MA in accounting) has made the move very difficult. Again, if anyone wants to comment with opinions on my other thread I would very much appreciate it.
One thing though, CA’s whether in Canada or the UK have more prestige than CPA’s in the US.
kevin, how many years have you been in accounting? I’m surprised that even with an MA in finance that you have troubles getting roles. And being that you are proficient in FSA due to the CPA and work experience… Are you over-qualified due to your past work experiences? so maybe that’s why you aren’t getting call-backs?
delero Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > One thing though, CA’s whether in Canada or the UK > have more prestige than CPA’s in the US. I agree as well, its much harder to become a CA than a CPA. As for finance, CA also has a formal agreement with CBV which makes it a lot easier for CA’s to get into valuation and make the segway from accounting to finance related roles.
kevinf12 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am a CPA and have passed level 1 of CFA and have > a public accounting background and can say that I > have found it almost impossible to get into > anything investment related as I am pegged to the > accounting roles. > > I have a Master’s in Finance (not an MBA however) > from Texas A&M (undergrad in accounting) and > basically anything truely finance I have found it > hard to even get interviews. Thus why I started > CFA (I have posted this as its own thread the > other day for advice, but no takers…so if > ANYONE wants to offer opinions I would appreciate > it). > > From a knowledge standpoint, yes, the accounting > will help a TON on financial statement > analysis…but from outside perspective I dont > think it has helped at all (I actually tutor some > MBA students in Financial statement analysis). > > So at least for me accounting degree/background > (if you equate CPA to a MA in accounting) has made > the move very difficult. Again, if anyone wants > to comment with opinions on my other thread I > would very much appreciate it. If you are dead set on an investment job, and you applied to my firm (large AM), you would have to take a step back before you could take a step forward. In other words you would most likely have to work in the back office for about a year, and then apply for middle office positions internally, which you would get if you took the time to learn about our products (i.e. know basics that they don’t teach in BO). You would also be looking at a huge paycut, assuming you make ~70k now… probably down to about 45-50k. Furthermore, to advance past the back office it would help a great deal if you passed levels 2 and 3. Your personality/style/appearance also matters. They want people they can put in front of clients.
with the amount of research analyst that I see that have CA, I figure CAs are highly respected in research. Though I don’t see too many CAs as portfolio managers.
"kevin, how many years have you been in accounting? I’m surprised that even with an MA in finance that you have troubles " I dont think there is anyway I am overqualified…I am only 27, and have 2.5 years from Deloitte and then now 1.5 years with this small tech company as a financial analyst (glorified title for mostly planning and budgeting). I have had some exposure to doing some business case analysis (for new product/markets), building financials (5 year plans etc) and that type of thing which I like, but I dont get it nearly enough and the company doesnt have anywhere for me to grow in a finance role (I could move up in accounting if I wish). But when I left Deloitte I talked with a few consulting type roles (like valuation services, real estate development companies, all types of more financial roles) and basically from them (and recruiters even) was told they pretty much want MBA’s (that was 1.5 years ago). So now after doing level 1 I have decided to start looking again and see if anything has changed. But most roles it seemed they usually wanted an MBA and didnt really see much in my finance degree. So I just keep plugging along and waiting. I have my own business as well, so sometimes it is fine having a job where I get a lot of time (not too bad on hours). But I really like doing financial statement analysis and valuation work, so I would love to have a role that interest me. That is part of the reason I do a lot of the tutoring (side money helps) for MBA students. It even led to me doing some contract work for a VERY small M&A firm (I basically do the comments on the financials for the buyers book). I guess I am just wondering, other than networking (which I am trying), what else can I do to make myself a better candidate? Sorry to hijack the thread (posted previously but no response) but it seems applicable here as well given the accounting considerations.