CFA_Halifax Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Perhaps I should start my own des…seems like > there is better money in that than the stock > market these days? no?? What about the Sainthood thing? Do you think that being a Saint would be more useful in a job search than one of these financial designations?
Not in HK… every Tom Dick and Harry seems to have a Masters of Finance… they collect qualifications here like no-one’s business!!!
Yea, check out Europe if you want to see a glut of Masters of Finance degrees. Will make you think twice…
losers,keeping buying crabs like C.A.I.A., A.B.C., X.Y.Z, but not having a J.O.B.
yeah you go make money tony - you know everything, and you’ll be CEO soon. we’re going to be reading about all the 30% years you had in the papers. thanks for helping give everyone on the board some perspective on life and career.
I never understood why there is so much animosity (from the same few people) towards people who do non-CFA finance credentials on these CFA boards. Seems pretty ironic…
Like sternwolf said… keep the negativity to yourself.
mikebc1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Like sternwolf said… > > keep the negativity to yourself. A lot of the disrespect for the smaller supplemental financial certs like the FRM and the CAIA come from people who think that people are doing these certs as a desperation move to get an entry level job. Strange, as no one seems to rise up in outrage over the $100 grand top 10 MBA…since apparently the greatest benefit comes from the recruiting rather than the repetitive, inanely expensive courses that are part of it… The FRM curriculum covers more materials and is a lot harder… but overall uses the same textbooks (Ie. Hull and more)as the futures & options and Risk management courses at the NYU Stern MBA finance program. It’s like studying these two grad school courses in a far more thorough (and risky) manner. I’m not sure about the CAIA but since it is designed to be a CFA complement I think it has a solid basis in MBA finance programs as well. The FRM and the CAIA are maybe 4-5 courses of stuff that you learn when you do a finance MBA (in an easier and less involved extent) anyway… And they don’t overlap with the CFA.
rohufish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > commstudent, > > there are plenty of folks like you out there, > which why the 10% keep making money, and the > markets keep having crises every so often. thank > goodness for you guys. keep making more of you. > > i don’t care if the person kept the designation. > its good enough for me if they studied the stuff, > understand it cold, and tuck it into one line at > the end of their resume. i am speaking of the > skills, the learning, lets be clear about that. > > unfortunately - without getting into the > percentile scores you got on the exam, i can see > how it can come across as designation collector. > maybe the way to differentiate is to demonstrate > your quantiles on the exam, rather than just > passing it. and don’t put the stupid letters after > your name. that takes care of the perception > problem. Seriously, making an explicit link between certs and performance is really, really naive. I have met a lot of very, very good fund managers, and the causal link is not evident at all. I think your statements fully vindicate my thesis that some will find it off-putting. You are helping to culture the perception that cert-chasers are detached from the real world.
sternwolf Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mikebc1 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Like sternwolf said… > > > > keep the negativity to yourself. > > A lot of the disrespect for the smaller > supplemental financial certs like the FRM and the > CAIA come from people who think that people are > doing these certs as a desperation move to get an > entry level job. > > Strange, as no one seems to rise up in outrage > over the $100 grand top 10 MBA…since > apparently the greatest benefit comes from the > recruiting rather than the repetitive, inanely > expensive courses that are part of it… > I totally agree that top MBA’s are way to overvalued, but did you ever see that movie “Catch me if you can”, this reminds of this quote: “Do you know why the Yankees always win?” “Because they’ve got Mantle?” “No. It’s because the other team’s too busy staring at the pin stripes.” … That’s like have an Ivy Leauge education. It’s not better, bit it wows people I think. For the record, I too have a little tinge of populist anti-Ivy leauge in my blood, but even I see the value it brings.
What if you have a top 5 undergrad, you’re already in a post-MBA front office job for an international IB, you went 3/3 on the CFA, and you still want to take the PRM, FRM, CAIA, etc.? Do you think that would count as pathetic or credential chasing? Or would it be more credential chasing to go for a top 5 MBA even if you really don’t need one? Just curious…
DirtyZ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What if you have a top 5 undergrad, you’re already > in a post-MBA front office job for an > international IB, you went 3/3 on the CFA, and you > still want to take the PRM, FRM, CAIA, etc.? Do > you think that would count as pathetic or > credential chasing? Or would it be more credential > chasing to go for a top 5 MBA even if you really > don’t need one? Just curious… It might be kind of expensive to go for an unnecessary Ivy MBA… Spending a few grand to do the CFA, FRM (or PRM), and CAIA together would pretty much cover the whole “graduate finance academic education”. The rest will have to come with work experience. Or you can buy the $100,000 Ivy MBA and get right into the post-MBA game…
Good input sternwolf.
I think the opportunity costs of leaving such a FO role with a BB would totally outweigh any benefits to leaving to do a top MBA or spending your weekends sitting in a library or coffee shop learning about VAR. Just wait until you get laid off to do these des’ if you really want to do them. History shows you will be a few times in this industry, and it probably beats watching Three’s Company reruns on TBS all day.
What are the opportunity costs of spending your weekends learning VAR. What would you give up, watching reruns of Three’s Company on the weekend.
Etienne Wrote: > > Seriously, making an explicit link between certs > and performance is really, really naive. I have > met a lot of very, very good fund managers, and > the causal link is not evident at all. > > I think your statements fully vindicate my thesis > that some will find it off-putting. You are > helping to culture the perception that > cert-chasers are detached from the real world. you don’t really listen or pay attention, do you etienne? maybe thats why you never got along with your two MDs from your last job. it’ll catch up with you, learn to open your mind to new possibilities. for the umpteenth time - i don’t give a hoot if someone doesn’t even bother to keep the designation after passing the exams. all i value is the learning, that they KNOW the stuff WELL. passing an exam demonstrated that competence - especially if your quantiles were high in multiple topical areas. this stuff doesn’t just magically show up in your brain just because you worked for 15 years in a cube on the 76th floor behind the restrooms. you have to read the right book & chapter, read the footnotes, pencil your notes, try some sample calculations, and to reassure yourself that you did all this rigorously and completely, pass some standardized exam to discipline yourself. now, if you can magically learn this stuff in your sleep, or your 5 minutes of free time after a finance job typical day (oops, sorry need those 5 for the loo!), then more power to you, you go conquer the world, my boy. i completely agree w you about ‘cert chasers’ - folks who just pad their resume with certs that they barely passed with 60% scores, etc. that would create doubts about whether all that confused effort made things clearer for them, or they are now hopelessly lost. i’d check their conceptual understanding to see if they just happened to be a poor test taker but ‘get it’. i’d always give them credit for putting in the effort and showing hunger and committment. my theory on the resistance from some of the board participants - they know they don’t have it in them to be a well rounded finance student. they are easily satisfied with ‘some’ knowledge, enough to bring them into the top 25%, but are not willing/able to make a push for that top 10% which can only come from learning more of this seemingly painful, but astonishingly fascinating finance theory in the newer frontiers like risk, alternatives, etc. they then become victims of confirmation bias, overconfidence bias, lazyness bias, etc. and thats the beginning of their descent into mediocrity. i have no doubt the folks who put in their time to learn the good stuff will value their profession, progress in their career, etc. separate the ‘three letter cert’ from the ‘2000 hrs of learning’ in your little head, etienne, and maybe you’ll see the light. good luck mate!
rohufish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Etienne Wrote: > > > > Seriously, making an explicit link between > certs > > and performance is really, really naive. I > have > > met a lot of very, very good fund managers, and > > the causal link is not evident at all. > > > > I think your statements fully vindicate my > thesis > > that some will find it off-putting. You are > > helping to culture the perception that > > cert-chasers are detached from the real world. > > you don’t really listen or pay attention, do you > etienne? maybe thats why you never got along with > your two MDs from your last job. it’ll catch up > with you, learn to open your mind to new > possibilities. > > for the umpteenth time - i don’t give a hoot if > someone doesn’t even bother to keep the > designation after passing the exams. all i value > is the learning, that they KNOW the stuff WELL. > passing an exam demonstrated that competence - > especially if your quantiles were high in multiple > topical areas. > > this stuff doesn’t just magically show up in your > brain just because you worked for 15 years in a > cube on the 76th floor behind the restrooms. you > have to read the right book & chapter, read the > footnotes, pencil your notes, try some sample > calculations, and to reassure yourself that you > did all this rigorously and completely, pass some > standardized exam to discipline yourself. now, if > you can magically learn this stuff in your sleep, > or your 5 minutes of free time after a finance job > typical day (oops, sorry need those 5 for the > loo!), then more power to you, you go conquer the > world, my boy. > > i completely agree w you about ‘cert chasers’ - > folks who just pad their resume with certs that > they barely passed with 60% scores, etc. that > would create doubts about whether all that > confused effort made things clearer for them, or > they are now hopelessly lost. i’d check their > conceptual understanding to see if they just > happened to be a poor test taker but ‘get it’. i’d > always give them credit for putting in the effort > and showing hunger and committment. > > my theory on the resistance from some of the board > participants - they know they don’t have it in > them to be a well rounded finance student. they > are easily satisfied with ‘some’ knowledge, enough > to bring them into the top 25%, but are not > willing/able to make a push for that top 10% which > can only come from learning more of this seemingly > painful, but astonishingly fascinating finance > theory in the newer frontiers like risk, > alternatives, etc. they then become victims of > confirmation bias, overconfidence bias, lazyness > bias, etc. and thats the beginning of their > descent into mediocrity. > > i have no doubt the folks who put in their time to > learn the good stuff will value their profession, > progress in their career, etc. > > separate the ‘three letter cert’ from the ‘2000 > hrs of learning’ in your little head, etienne, and > maybe you’ll see the light. good luck mate! You can do all the certs you want, if it makes you happy. Bottom-line: I probably have the job you’re still chasing.
what is your job, Etienne? Do you have an MBA?
Junior PM. No MBA, but I do have a MSc.
Good for you Etienne, why are you on this board. Why are you getting the CFA if you have an MSc, isnt that “just overlap”. First, if you are truly a player in this field you wouldnt be on this board. My reason for chasing certificates and charters is that it forces me to learn, when I otherwise would probably end up doing something else, happy hours, tv, etc. It is an addition to the resume, that helps get you to an interview where you can then display your knowledge. I hate failing. If there is no exam at the end of the learning, I do not feel threatened enough to really dig down and learn the material, I dont feel accountable to it, especially if it doesnt directly apply to my current job. I do not have a Msc, nor do I have the debt that comes with it, yet I have a similar role as you at probably a much younger age. So, I would say chasing certificates and charters has worked for me.