same goes for mr. pink above. and anyone else with these regressive mentalities.
Well said rohufish.
rohufish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > etienne, > > i would never work for, nor allow anyone to > progress to a leadership role, some one who > disparages others who put in effort to learn, nor > anyone who ‘gets put off’ by those who earn these > credentials. it says more about your > ego/overconfidence/lack of knowledge and respect > for knowledge, than about the committed > candidate. > > sorry mate, you disappoint me with your pathetic > attitude towards learning. It remains my firm belief that probably only a tiny fraction of people have the capacity to master the material in all these programmes. I’m talking about an in-depth and lasting understanding. I would say easily less than 1% of the general population. That’s where the link with undergrad comes in. If you are inside the top 1%, you probably coasted through undergrad with a top GPA. A person should have some cognisance of the limits of their own abilities. Unless truly blessed, more will come from focus and learning about the real world. My $0.02.
maybe the person had a bad personal challenge during undergrad, or had financial problems which required them to work almost full time to cover college expenses, or maybe had a family to support because was oldest sibling from poor family. or didn’t receive any guidance or direction during those formative years. or maybe was smart but from a rich family so partied away college. or suffered from some health issue back then. or maybe parents couldn’t afford a good school which fed into top colleges. or maybe they do not like the structured cadence of college, and prefer learning at their own pace, by themselves. you get the point, there are a myriad reasons why people hit their strides at different times in life. the point is - you have to learn how to tolerate that and see that when you review a job candidate. also, i totally disagree about ‘limits of abilities’. the limits are what you want them to be - my school of thought is if you work hard you can learn it. you seem to be encouraging people to draw a cowardly line somewhere and religiously ensure they don’t learn too much because they may not be ‘smart’ enough. thats BS, and pathetic frankly. we’d all still be living in a cage or swinging from trees if our ancestors had followed your advice. we’re here because someone ignored the ‘limits’ and debunked the theory of innate capacity for knowledge.
I think you guys need to lay off of Etienne. I think his point boils down to the fact that there is no substitute for real work experience and he is right. No one cares about your marks or your school if you are smart and have been able to demonstrate that by gaining relevant and meaningful job experience. Sure if you can’t get a job other than customer service or retail/back office then you may have to do more school for the networking and recruiting but getting a plethora of degrees and designations won’t help if all you have on your resume under work experience is manning the phones for years on years. Having said that, if you want to learn for the sake of learning or go to school in a foreign country to pave the way for you to more easily emmigrate to that country or for life experience then go for it. I am considering a masters of finance after I get my CA just to get away for a while and to live in a different country. Howver, who knows global warming may make Canadian winters more liveable and not necessitate a change in scenery.
no we are not going to lay off little etienne 
the seasoned board participants deserve some hazing too when they make juvenile remarks. just kidding, nothing personal against anyone. experience is important, but nothing wrong with going in with a full tool kit into that career. finance jobs don’t allow the time to learn this stuff on the side while being whipped by greedy employers for all your juice, so there’s something to be said for getting the education bit out of the way early. of course, you’ll do continuing ed along the way, but it won’t need as much of the intense time committment as the basic foundation in the vast field does. i repeat - the vast majority of people in this industry are in a narrow little silo - one industry, one asset class, one family of instruments, one function, etc. so the argument that ‘experience’ will solve all ills doesn’t match the facts out there. you will just keep digging the hole you are in even deeper. if thats your objective, more power to you, have fun. i’m hiring the geek who doesn’t shove a mile deep experienced resume in my face asking for monetization of that ‘experience’ out of my pocket. i’d rather they show me they have the flexible skills to make risk-adjusted returns no matter what the market, what the asset class, what the instrument. try getting that breadth from your beloved employer. they will probably say ‘it put me off’ that you’re so committed and well rounded. this is a business where the top 10% makes money off the bottom 90%. think of what it takes to get into that top 10%.
Perhaps I should start my own des…seems like there is better money in that than the stock market these days? no??
I completely agree with rohufish, work experience will always be the number one factor, but people who have multiple certifications should never be looked down at simply for the fact they have multiple certs. That being said, a graduate degree in business (MBA/MFE/CPA) and a CFA is more powerful combo then just multiple certs.
I agree with you CFAMaven, but I am unwilling to go back fulltime and lose this valuable experience of which I am currently gaining, therefore, the next best alternative in my mind is to continue working and gaining that experience and multiple multiple charters on the side, not just to get the charters, but to actually learn what I would have been learning in a masters program, and probably even more.
I find the CFP designation more valuable than the CAIA or FRM. It is known and with the aging of the population, many more people are looking for financial planners to help them out for retirement. Having the CFP will add to your credibility in their eyes.
former trader Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I find the CFP designation more valuable than the > CAIA or FRM. > > It is known and with the aging of the population, > many more people are looking for financial > planners to help them out for retirement. Having > the CFP will add to your credibility in their > eyes. CFP is a financial planning designation. CAIA is focused almost entirely on Alt. Inv. The two competing designations, FRM and PRM are both focused on Risk management and derivatives. They are all different…
I think it depends entirely on what you want to do in your career. If you plan on being a top level executive in a hedge fund or private equity firm I’d say go for the masters plus 2-4 certifications, especially if you have it in you to do all that studying right now. Masters + CFA + CAIA + PRM and/or FRM isn’t unreasonable for someone with the ability to reach the top in another 10 years or so. It will make your career progress that much easier. If you are in something such as IBanking or advising retirees on what to do with their charitable donations all that probably isn’t necessary.
Im just wondering, do you guys actually know of any of these designation collectors that have actually profited from all that work? I was under the impression that recruiters look for raw intelligence (based on your alma matter, GPA, SAT, etc). I mean if I was a recruiter and I saw some dude with 4 finance designations on his resume and no decent experience Id laugh.
i don’t plan to get CFA, CAIA, PRM, FRM, CPA, or any other degree described on this thread, and yet i still feel like a wholesome human being. i wonder if i’m committing career suicide right now?
commstudent, there are plenty of folks like you out there, which why the 10% keep making money, and the markets keep having crises every so often. thank goodness for you guys. keep making more of you. i don’t care if the person kept the designation. its good enough for me if they studied the stuff, understand it cold, and tuck it into one line at the end of their resume. i am speaking of the skills, the learning, lets be clear about that. unfortunately - without getting into the percentile scores you got on the exam, i can see how it can come across as designation collector. maybe the way to differentiate is to demonstrate your quantiles on the exam, rather than just passing it. and don’t put the stupid letters after your name. that takes care of the perception problem.
CFA_Halifax Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Perhaps I should start my own des…seems like > there is better money in that than the stock > market these days? no?? That’s not a half bad idea… Jeff Dermier, the President and CEO made 500k last year for running the show. Not a bad paycheck, imo. But in all seriousness, I’m all for self betterment and education and I think we’d all agree that there are any number of things that you could alternatively do that would not be as beneficial to your career/life/etc. than obtaining additional certifications. With that being said, however, obtaining all of these certifications for the express interest of getting hired may be perceived negatively. Judging from what I’ve read so far in this thread I assume you’re currently employed, but you didn’t bother to mention what it is you do and how relevant these certifications are to your present role. Maybe you could shed some light on what it is you do and you might get some better comments, perhaps.
I’m seriously thinking of learning Portugesse when I’m done CFA. Think about it, Brazil is a hot up and coming market, and should be for the next 40 years or so of my career. I mean, China will be too, but no way my little brain will ever learn Mandarin. Indians all want to speak English. Russia is and always will be a mess IMHO. Plus, Brazil has certain benefits if you know what I mean…NICE!
CFA_Halifax Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > no way my little brain will ever learn > Mandarin. > 1B+ little brains do it. my take - brazil will be just like russia. learn mandarin - sure shot.
Does anyone have a list of designations in Finance in the last 20 years that no longer exist? or is the explosion of designations a recent phenomenon?
I’d like to think that there really isn’t such a thing as an “average” Master of Finance? I mean graduate school certainly puts one into the above average category, doesn’t it? Willy