MBA Question for anyone who would know

Lol at 25% and 50% chances dude! A person with perfect GPA and GMAT doesn’t even have a 50% chance of getting into NYU. Columbia accepts ~15% as does NYU. Assuming you are an average candidate these would be your true probabilities of being accepted at either school. Based on the probabilities you have proposed would indicate that you consider yourself a candidate far superior to the average candidate at either of these schools. More on the average candidate: NYU Avg Candidate: GMAT 717 GPA 3.5 http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/admissions/fulltime/exceptionalstudents.cfm?doc_id=395 Columbia Avg Candidate: GMAT 711 (approximate from several sources since school no longer releases the mean: GAY!) GPA 3.60 (also approximate and from several sources) I will tell you this, the GPA doesn’t count for SHIT in MBA applications, it will never get you into a school but it will get you thrown out of the pool if it’s not high enough. The true barometer is your GMAT score, this is the most important part of your application and the number that will be looked at most often and with the most amount of scrutiny. Of course your work experience and rec.s can make a difference, but only if they or you are coming from a high profile company/role or if you have a prominent alumni write them for you. You are far too optimistic about your chances of getting into either of these excellent schools and need to have a reality check. As on objective third party I can say your chances of getting into either one are going to be around 6%-7%. Furthermore, and to be brutally frank your numbers would barely get you back into your alma mater’s MBA program. Sorry, to be so forward but your expectations are way off and its better you hear it from someone here and call them a DICK, than hear it in a few months and think yourself stupid or an idiot for not having done your research. Your GPA is good, it won’t rule you out, but your GMAT is not and will get you a rejection letter. I don’t understand why you don’t want to retake this exam (perhaps personal reasons or something else that we aren’t privy to). It is simple (material covered is all at a high school level or below), easy to study for/game, and can be taken any time and as many times as you want. I highly encourage you to retake this exam and improve your score, otherwise you are just setting yourself up to fail.

I think that’s a little harsh. Do you have fantastic extra-curriculars?

@Ali: I don’t think it is. These are the best schools in the WORLD, to put your odds of getting into one at 50% is just facetious and cocky. I’m all for the people that get in talking a big game, but before you even get in I have a big problem with! I hope the dude gets in, but if those are the only schools he is applying to he needs to be prepared for the very real chance that he gets rejection letters, along with the other 85% of applicants to these schools. Most of those 85% are very intelligent and highly driven individuals that took the time to take and retake the GMAT and get scores in the 700s, which is what most people here are telling him to do to improve his chances (since his GPA is good). But even if he did score 800 on the GMAT assuming that your chance of getting into an NYU is 50% is just asinine.

That makes sense and puts things in perspective for sure. However, there are lots of people that get into good schools because of their association with alumni and/or special circumstances (like where he or she comes from). I’m convinced that designations don’t have much merit; it’s all about the x-factor. I would argue most applicants don’t have that sort of leadership experience.

adavydov7 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hahaha, never said your GPA was too low. But > thanks for telling me I have no personality, > sob:***-( this coming from an accountant too, watch out fool

@Ali: completely agree which is why I made the following statement: "Of course your work experience and rec.s can make a difference, but only if they or you are coming from a high profile company/role or if you have a prominent alumni write them for you. " Translated: If you know Michael Dell (substitute any other wealthy benefactor, alumni, or anyone else with pull at the school/admission committee) and he writes you a letter of recommendation and donates some money for the creation of a new trading center at the school of your choice of course you will get it. How else do you think people with a 600 GMAT score get into NYU? I was writing my recommendations/commentary under the assumption that Cheros isn’t what I call a special-needs candidate (i.e. he isn’t an fing retard that needs wealthy mommy/daddy, or someone else to get him into a top ranked school). My apologies for not stating my assumptions more clearly.

@I_Passed_Level_1: Yea dude I’m FUCKED, might as well be someone’s pet rock with all the personality I’ve got.

I agree with everything adavydov7 is saying dude, you aint gettin in. Shoot for University of Texas or UNC or something like that.

Or just retake GMAT. You’re obviously smart, so why not? I guarantee you can better 670! Just focus on the first 10 questions extra hard and make sure you ace them, after that the first number of your score (i.e. 5, 6, 7) is pretty much locked in and they are determining what you get after the 6 or 7 (i.e. 10, 20, 30…).

adavydov7 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @Ali: completely agree which is why I made the > following statement: > > "Of course your work experience and rec.s can make > a difference, but only if they or you are coming > from a high profile company/role or if you have a > prominent alumni write them for you. " > > Translated: If you know Michael Dell (substitute > any other wealthy benefactor, alumni, or anyone > else with pull at the school/admission committee) > and he writes you a letter of recommendation and > donates some money for the creation of a new > trading center at the school of your choice of > course you will get it. How else do you think > people with a 600 GMAT score get into NYU? I was > writing my recommendations/commentary under the > assumption that Cheros isn’t what I call a > special-needs candidate (i.e. he isn’t an fing > retard that needs wealthy mommy/daddy, or someone > else to get him into a top ranked school). My > apologies for not stating my assumptions more > clearly. My apologies for my lack of attention to detail in reading :slight_smile:

Hahaha, Ali. We are going to have fun studying for this thing together yet again, I can already feel it. I also feel the Oilers coming on strong in the next few months and avenging those three early season losses to your beloved Calgary Flame-out-s.

Thanks for the heated debate guys. I take no offense to anything that is said, you might have missed it but I said I would not be depressed if I didn’t get into either. Just to offer a slightly different view … I’m not sure if you guys have been to visit any schools, but when I visited NYU, everyone I spoke to said to spend the extra time on your essays rather than retaking the GMAT. They said essays are very important. They could definitely be wrong, but we will see. The reason Im not retaking it again is because ive already taken it 2ce in the last 2 months, and 3 times in the last 5 years. Its not like i took it once, got cocky. I also need to finish 6 essays and start studying for L3. Not to mention I work 70 hours a week. I cant spend every month studying for the GMAT. If i dont get in; and im told that the only reason is the GMAT; I will wait until next yr; finish L3 in june — and study in the summer for the GMAT. And trust me, im not cocky at all about this process.

That sounds like a good plan man, good luck with it. And if you don’t get in this year it will just give you an extra year of earning potential (which you will need if you get into either one of the schools, because they are pricey$$$) and experience.

One last thought on this as I thought about it some more last night. My comment earlier about being able to get in with a 600 GMAT is contingent on donating a new trading center to your school of choice/having Dell write your rec isn’t the only way to get into a great MBA program with score that low. I thought of a few other, more reasonable routes to gain admission. The scale below is something I constructed to help narrow down the GMAT score one would need based on race and sex: Score needed to get into a top 10 MBA program and physical attributes necessary to get into said school: <620: African American Woman, Native American Woman 620-650: African American Male, Native American Male 650-675: American Woman (and I don’t mean an immigrant, I mean white American!) 675-715: American Male 715-745: Asian, Indian, Russian Woman >745: Asian, Indian, Russian Male (since this group, even at a B-school, should be able to recite the Large Hadron Collider Manual backwards after having been awaken from REM sleep) I don’t want to here any stupid ASS “ohh you’re racist comments.” We are all smart enough to realize that this above scale isn’t far from reality, and there are academic studies that document both standardized scores and admission of sex/racial groups into schools that closely mirror said scales. Furthermore, if you fall into one of the groups on the lower end of the spectrum you should in fact consider yourself lucky since the bar is set lower and if your scores are high your chances of getting in are just that much better than the rest of us. In light of this, doing a reverse Michael Jackson coupled with a sex change gives you the best chance of getting into a top MBA program, if you don’t want to study for the GMAT that is!

I think that you guys are applying an extremely narrow template to what does and does not get you accepted into b-school. GMAT and GPA are critical components, and his scores are absolutely competitive. I think he is completely correct in focusing on his essays, interview prep, and rec coaching versus giving more time to his GMAT. B-school differs from other grad and undergrad programs in that they cannot be boiled-down to a couple numbers that define you. Career progress, ECs, and how you present yourself on the app/essays is extremely important. That being said, with only a limited amount of info about the OP, I don’t think any of us can say what his % chances of getting into any of the top schools are.

Cheros - I think you have a good shot. Don’t listen to adavy, he’s smokin crack. Mossy is right on, it’s all about the full picture. Your GMAT is absolutely competitive, it’s not bad enough to put you in the pile where they aren’t likely to give you serious consideration. To be honest, the adcoms are not going to be worried about your analytical ability whatsoever since you’ve got CPA/ CFA L2 and a very high GPA in accounting. I think the bigger hurdle for you will be convincing the committees “Why do you want to get an MBA?” “career vision?” “what will you contribute?” etc. I would focus on that in your essays and particularly in your interviews (if you get them). I think if you had less than say 630/640 at these programs then they would need to see something pretty impressive to outweigh that, but you are right in the range where they will give your app full attention. Also note that on AF, everyone will be obsessed with test scores, cause that’s what we’re good at. If you go to some of the other b-school forums they’ll make you feel like you aren’t competitive if you haven’t started your own company, or won an olympic medal. It’s just a survey bias. I’m in the midst of the application cycle myself. Just interviewed at Chicago and Wharton last week. Just out of curiousity, why are you only applying to the NY schools? Best of luck!

@janky: Yea and what was your GMAT and be honest? I agree that a well rounded application makes a huge difference, but the level of candidate applying to these schools should have that anyway. So a low GMAT makes your app a throw away at these schools since they have so many other ultra-competitive apps with high scores, good essays, good recs, life goals etc. etc. etc. This is why these are the top schools, because they attract top talent and everyone’s app is excellent. The people who get admitted with low scores and GPAs are a) minorities or b) have a 1 in a million story, life experience, recommendation etc. Think about it why would a school voluntarily accept a candidate with an excellent application (i.e. essays and recs) but low GPA or GMAT scores over another candidate with an excellent application but high scores? It makes no sense since part of the school’s ranking depends on these quantifiable measures of candidate quality, so the only way the former is allowed in is if his rec.s or essays or both are absolutely unbelievable, and I don’t mean this figuratively, they literally have to be too good to be true!

Janky and Mossy Thank you very much for your input. Although I always take posts on this board with a pinch of salt, I was slightly down after reading such vehemently negative posts. This is because what they were saying ran contrary to what I was being told by ACTUAL MBA’s. The reason im only applying to NYC is because, as loserish is this sounds, I live in NYC and I have a serious girlfriend (4yrs) who is an actress, and cant go to somewhere like New Haven if you know what I mean. She has had some personal tragedies in her life and I dont think I can leave for 2 years and go somewhere else, especially b/c we just moved in together. The only real extracurricular at the current time that I have is that I teach business skills at an inner-city high school 1nce a week here in NYC. I teach pretty impoverished and rough kids. Obviously with the workload/studying I dont have much other time for volunteering. I do a lot of recruiting work at colleges for my work, but its not “extra curricular”. I obviously have a lot of INTERESTS: a ton of broadway shows, sports etc, so I am not some study geek. In college I cofounded an investment club that is still in existense. Any other advise on extra-curriculars I should start now? Or would it just be looked upon as “he’s only doing it for the application” at this point? Janky, good luck with those interviews. What is your background/scores etc

Its so frustrating. I was a South African citizen until 6 months ago. I could have been a minority! arg

@cheros: wasn’t trying to be negative, just honest. PS as stupid as it sounds the South African thing could have been a plus, but I know how the whole citizenship thing goes…you take when you can/as soon as they give it to you (got mine this past Feb). Also, what part of SF did you live in? My dad did a lot of consulting for Sasol and also worked at the Uni in Joha every 2-3 years for a couple of months.