Monkey Business

I just finished the book. Does investment banking really suck as much as they make it out to be? Is most of the time spent editing and creating colorful pitch books rather than valuating the company in question? It was my impression that IB was very quant/excel/valuation driven rather than sales-like.

Yep it sucks that much.

It’s sales-driven and relationship management, for sure.

My buddy got so frustrated as an IB Analyst, he quit his job without having found another one. This was before everything went to shambles. So he accepted a position as an equity analyst with another firm. He had put on 30 lbs, started going bald and kept losing chicks. In the end, I think the kind of dough makes up for all the crap you go through. IMO.

But it’s definitely not entrepreneurial dough, would you agree with that? I mean, the hourly wage stays lower for a banker compared to the potential “hourly wage” of an entrepreneur down the road. Of course, the entrepreneur is in a riskier position. I think that’s why you perhaps see so many bankers who use their experience to eventually gain positions in up-and-coming corporations–that, and they also burn out.

I know the Troobs, they are some crazy mofos. One of them called one of their investors at home in the middle of the night once after the investor submitted a redemption notice begging him to stay.

@ Ali I agree. But, it paves way for you to be efficient structurally, intellectualy, economically to evolve into an entrepreneur. Analysts in my research team look for this skill in an applicant’s resume. My argument is - what if someone (like me, for eg.) doesn’t have the chips available to start a portfolio of his own, or a ‘family fund’ and so on? I was willing to manage assets as soon as I started school, but never has enough monies to make it justifiable. Look at an IB analyst who becomes VP in 2-3 years, and an MD in another 3 years for a total of 5-6 yrs. Now, he/she has the financials and intellects to go on and become an entrepreneur. Wouldn’t you agree?

Iginla2010 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @ Ali > > I agree. But, it paves way for you to be efficient > structurally, intellectualy, economically to > evolve into an entrepreneur. Analysts in my > research team look for this skill in an > applicant’s resume. My argument is - what if > someone (like me, for eg.) doesn’t have the chips > available to start a portfolio of his own, or a > ‘family fund’ and so on? > > I was willing to manage assets as soon as I > started school, but never has enough monies to > make it justifiable. > > Look at an IB analyst who becomes VP in 2-3 years, > and an MD in another 3 years for a total of 5-6 > yrs. Now, he/she has the financials and intellects > to go on and become an entrepreneur. Wouldn’t you > agree? Is this b-school buzzword bingo? Structurally efficient? Intellectually efficient? Evolution to an entrepreneur? Check out the LIII curriculum - they use a word called “homo econimicus” - may be of interest to you in order to synergize a new mission statement. I’d argue the opposite. IB teaches you to be subservient, very little about investing (more about reverse engineering a DCF in order to arrive at a price), amongst many others. IM’s like I-banking candidates only because they don’t have the resources to teach their young analysts how to interpret financial statements and disclosures.

Iginla2010 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Look at an IB analyst who becomes VP in 2-3 years, > and an MD in another 3 years for a total of 5-6 > yrs. Now, he/she has the financials and intellects > to go on and become an entrepreneur. Wouldn’t you > agree? Analyst -> MD in 5-6yrs…sign me up, I’ll work 400hrs a week, I promise.

“sign me up, I’ll work 400hrs a week, I promise.” ha ha…you’re already lying. Hence, you don’t get the job!! Value - I never said you need to be in investor or money manager in order to be an entrepreneur. It (IB), however, does lead you to the financial resources and the business experience. You can execute your business ideas once you branch out. That’s all I am saying. IMO, a dude in the admin dept. will be making very little money and learn almost nothing as compared to someone in the IB analyst role.

Iginla2010, again, love the nickname. You’re probably right, but it also depends on the time you have outside work to learn more about potential business endeavours and other subjects. Some of my IB friends have no time to think for themselves, and this continues in associate roles. Entrepreneurship is multi-disciplinary in approach so I definitely think this is a missing piece of the puzzle. What do you think?

Yes, and time is a huge piece missing from the puzzle. As I mentioned in an earlier post most of the guys I know ended up frustrated, overweight and socially starved in their stint with an IB. It doesn’t produce a well-rounded entrepreneur after all. Ali, are you somewhere close to the red mile?

Are you telling me that models and bottles video is not how life is like in ibanking?!

How stacked is our D this year? JayBo - Phaneuf Regehr - Sarich

I read through “Damn it Feels Good to be a Banker” and thought I should keep the IB route open for my MBA summer internship. Then I read Monkey Business and think the opposite. Monkey Business>Damn…Banker Some of the stories of due dilly, waiting at the copy room, printing, etc are simply hilarious. The procrastination in banking is quite hilarious as well.

storko Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How stacked is our D this year? > JayBo - Phaneuf > Regehr - Sarich I am positive about Gio - Pardy as well. and Brent Sutter. We are going all the way!!

Iginla2010 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Look at an IB analyst who becomes VP in 2-3 years, > and an MD in another 3 years for a total of 5-6 > yrs. Now, he/she has the financials and intellects > to go on and become an entrepreneur. Wouldn’t you > agree? What are you talking about? 24 year old VPs? Wow. Very few bankers even get that far, nad usually not to their 30’s. And there are far better routes to being entrepreneur. IB makes you “structurally efficient” as a ssmall cog in a large machine.

I know some IBs who work 7-6, but the pay is not as well.

This is somewhat off topic, but I was looking at an IB associate position as a possible next step after b-school. But it seems to me that the job descriptions of analysts and associates are nearly identical. Is there really much of a difference in the type of work an associate does vs an analyst? Are the hours still basically the same too? I was thinking IB might be a good way to accelerate my transaction experience, but it sounds like it might not really be that great of a learning experience. Anyone do an IB associate role out of b-school?

artvandalay - If you have any free time in your busy schedule, this book would answer a lot of your questions. I don’t know the validity of the material, but the AF consensus sees it as fact. These two writers were also post MBA IB associates. A lot of the associate’s time is typically spent preparing the pitchbook for the MD/VP whom goes on the road to the client. There is way too much time allocated to changing this word in the book, include this graph, but only in this color, etc. The examples in place showed a constant contradicting bicker among the people involved on the pitch and the poor associate had to change/unchange the suggestions as prompted, which usually took the whole night. After reading the book, it seems as if the bankers focus 70% of their energy on selling, and 30% of their energy on the actual valuation. This book was also written in 2001. I can imagine the high entry barriers that existed in the IB world have been substantially lowered. The authors explained how a handshake oligopoly exists in IB but it was slowly deteriorating as the internet among other things have climbed over the wall in place for finding venture capital, institutional money, and buyers of companies.