Just wanted to say I appreciate you guys bearing with me as I make post after post about my job hunt. Here’s the story: I interviewed for a job about 4 weeks ago. I thought the interview went well, all my references are good, and my past work experience is somewhat unique but exactly what they stated they were looking for in the announcement. I was told there would be two rounds of interviews. Immediately sent thank you emails following round one. After not hearing one way or the other after two weeks, called HR and was informed that they’re “…still talking to other candidates” (ding?) and they would let me know soon. I also left voicemails and emails with each of my two interviewers reiterating my interest in the job and explaining why I was a good match. It’s now just under 4 weeks since my interview. The job is no longer posted on the company website or on the job message board where I found it. I still have not heard anything. I assume this is the infamous passive agressive “you’ve been rejected but we’re just not going to tell you” but I’m hopeful it’s not. So, with that in mind, what should I do? Call HR again? I don’t want to seem like a pest but at the same time I really want this job and it work out well for both me and the employer if I was hired. Sorry my post is so long winded but this is super frustrating. Any thoughts?
Sometimes things don’t workout. On to the next one.
Turkish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sometimes things don’t workout. On to the next > one. You’re probably right…but I see no harm in trying to get in touch with them one last time.
As Nicholas Nassim Taleb says, “Hope is a fallacy.” This happens all the time. It’s in the company’s best interest to keep every potential candidate in the loop. If things don’t work out with their #1 or #2 choice, they can fall back on their lower-ranked targets. I say don’t call again. Maybe send an e-mail in a few weeks just saying that if they ever have anything that might be a better fit to keep you in mind. At least that’s been my strategy. Maybe you shouldn’t follow my advice since I haven’t landed that highly-coveted FO job yet. But in all honesty I don’t think there’s much you as a candidate can do. You put your best foot forward, be personable, and that’s it. You can work on your longer-term goals such as studying for CFA, gaining more education and skills, etc. But other than that, they’ll pick the person who fits their immediate need, and the person who fits the culture of the company. Good luck.
Yeah this is what I was afraid of. I still think it’s EXTREMELY rude to not be honest and send some a form rejection letter. Takes about 5 minutes of the HR person’s time and gives the interviewee a peace of mind.
A rejection letter is a little too much to ask for IMO. Them not responding (after you’ve contacted them again) speaks for itself. I have actually received a rejection letter in the mail, hand-signed before. I’ve also received many rejection e-mails. I’ve also received rejection calls. But most of the time, I don’t hear anything, which, in and of itself, is a rejection. Keep truckin.
I think its best to just move on. You have shown that you are interested so if they arent resopnding its due to no fault of yours.
If I were you, I would keep calling until you get an answer. I once got an internship offer a month after my interview because I kept calling until I got an answer. On my first day, my boss told me that my persistence is what got me the internship (although it made me feel inferior that it wasn’t because of my interview-implied talent, but whatever gets you in the door). I know an internship doesn’t compare to a full time position, but taking 2 minutes to follow up until you get an answer is worth it, and continue to look and interview for other opportunities in the meantime.
Steely Dan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah this is what I was afraid of. I still think > it’s EXTREMELY rude to not be honest and send some > a form rejection letter. Takes about 5 minutes of > the HR person’s time and gives the interviewee a > peace of mind. You may yet get the rejection letter. It takes a surprisingly long time to make a hire, particularly in a time of tight budgets. Searches can also be cancelled, or just put on hold. Yeah, it sucks, but that’s the way the world works. Just remember - it’s just business; it’s not a personal statement about you. Even if you got the job wouldn’t necessarily mean you were the best or most impressive candidate. Again, it’s business - it’s not personal. But being personable is a good way to make a good impression.
I hate to be ruthless and cold, but think about it. If they wanted to hire you, would they let you fall through the cracks and/or keep you guessing? I read a book about the entertainment industry once (forgot the name but written by someone famous) and the author said that if they wanted an actor for a role or if a studio wanted to do a movie they would literally comb the ends of the Earth until they hunted down that actor or director to offer them the role. Sometimes you have dipsh!t companies that like to play games with you (those probably aren’t the people you want to work for anyways) but most of the time if they don’t make the effort to contact you it means they’ve moved on. At best you’re a backup in case their top choices turn them down. At worst you’ve already been dinged and they just don’t have the courtesy to tell you.
JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I hate to be ruthless and cold, but think about > it. If they wanted to hire you, would they let you > fall through the cracks and/or keep you guessing? > I read a book about the entertainment industry > once (forgot the name but written by someone > famous) and the author said that if they wanted an > actor for a role or if a studio wanted to do a > movie they would literally comb the ends of the > Earth until they hunted down that actor or > director to offer them the role. Sometimes you > have dipsh!t companies that like to play games > with you (those probably aren’t the people you > want to work for anyways) but most of the time if > they don’t make the effort to contact you it means > they’ve moved on. At best you’re a backup in case > their top choices turn them down. At worst you’ve > already been dinged and they just don’t have the > courtesy to tell you. See this message assumes companies think and hire rationally but I’m not sure they do. Plus this is a quasi government organization so I’m sure they have strict interview and hiring guidelines to follow. Everyone is so paranoid about a lawsuit that no one has common sense anymore.
Government jobs are even more arcane in terms of hiring. There’s lots of issues of who gets control and responsibility, and people are even more concerned than normal that 1) the guy has the best credentials on paper, and 2) the person won’t threaten or make them look as incompetent as many govvy guys are. It can’t hurt to keep calling and expressing interest - the worst that can happen is that they end up telling you you didn’t make the cut and that will hurt, but then, maybe the immediate hurt is less than the present value of all the worrying you would be doing otherwise, so it’s a bargain (how’s that for being a finance nerd). Calling may also get you to stick in their minds for a later position, provided that you are personable and likable. I’ve had people call me up with jobs or consulting offers because I impressed them in an interview that ultimately went to someone else, but they were impressed enough to remember me. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened to me as much recently, but it happens enough to realize that interviews are ways to build lasting contacts with people and organizations, whether or not you end up with a job there. Also, make sure you are calling the hiring manager - not HR. HR’s job is to be vague about stuff unless it isn’t necessary to be so. Little good ever comes of spending too much time talking to HR.
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Government jobs are even more arcane in terms of > hiring. There’s lots of issues of who gets > control and responsibility, and people are even > more concerned than normal that 1) the guy has the > best credentials on paper, and 2) the person won’t > threaten or make them look as incompetent as many > govvy guys are. > > It can’t hurt to keep calling and expressing > interest - the worst that can happen is that they > end up telling you you didn’t make the cut and > that will hurt, but then, maybe the immediate hurt > is less than the present value of all the worrying > you would be doing otherwise, so it’s a bargain > (how’s that for being a finance nerd). > > Calling may also get you to stick in their minds > for a later position, provided that you are > personable and likable. I’ve had people call me > up with jobs or consulting offers because I > impressed them in an interview that ultimately > went to someone else, but they were impressed > enough to remember me. Unfortunately, that hasn’t > happened to me as much recently, but it happens > enough to realize that interviews are ways to > build lasting contacts with people and > organizations, whether or not you end up with a > job there. > > Also, make sure you are calling the hiring manager > - not HR. HR’s job is to be vague about stuff > unless it isn’t necessary to be so. Little good > ever comes of spending too much time talking to > HR. Epic NPV reference. I laughed. The HR person is the person with whom I’ve been dealing. She appears to be the HR head for the office. Keep your fingers crossed for me.
The one issue I have with continuous calling is that I actually lost out on a job once because I contacted them too much. It was with a small but fairly well-known wealth management firm. I did a phone interview with the CEO and he seemed to like me and told me to call his assistant the next week to schedule a face-to-face interview. Called the assistant next week, she didn’t pick up, so I left a message. She never returned my call so I emailed her after a few days. No response so I called her again, got her on the phone and she said she was still working on the scheduling. Another couple weeks pass by and nothing, so I called her again and left another voicemail. No response so this time I leave a voicemail with the CEO. Finally she sends me an email with a very brief “we are not interested in pursuing a discussion with you at this point.” I felt like going down to their office and knocking her $30,000/year @ss on the ground but looking back on it I would’ve had to deal with this unresponsive h0bag on daily basis if I had gotten the job so really no damage done in not getting it.
i dont think shes the reason why you didnt get the second round interview. although, i can certainly relate to your frustration.
Do you think I should’ve shown off my body more?
JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The one issue I have with continuous calling is > that I actually lost out on a job once because I > contacted them too much. It was with a small but > fairly well-known wealth management firm. I did a > phone interview with the CEO and he seemed to like > me and told me to call his assistant the next week > to schedule a face-to-face interview. Called the > assistant next week, she didn’t pick up, so I left > a message. She never returned my call so I emailed > her after a few days. No response so I called her > again, got her on the phone and she said she was > still working on the scheduling. Another couple > weeks pass by and nothing, so I called her again > and left another voicemail. No response so this > time I leave a voicemail with the CEO. Finally she > sends me an email with a very brief “we are not > interested in pursuing a discussion with you at > this point.” I felt like going down to their > office and knocking her $30,000/year @ss on the > ground but looking back on it I would’ve had to > deal with this unresponsive h0bag on daily basis > if I had gotten the job so really no damage done > in not getting it. Unfortuantely I’ve dealt with variations of this sort of thing too. I don’t know why people waste your time and their’s doing this sort of thing. I’m convinced the world has gone mad.
Frankly, there is too much talent unemployed. There was a story on MSNBC about a small doctor’s office that posted help want ad for a PT Admin Assistant. Thinking the doctor would get a few high school or college students looking for extra money ($9/hr), the posting received 800 replies! Some of them, actual physicians, and high level candidates all desperate looking for work. That’s the reality today. I would let it go and not call back unless there is another job that’s a great fit for you. Good luck!
Mason88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Some of them, actual physicians, and high level > candidates all desperate looking for work. That’s > the reality today. > > I would let it go and not call back unless there > is another job that’s a great fit for you. > > Good luck! I find that hard to believe. Physicians have a recession proof job and I have NEVER heard of an unemployed doctor or even nurse for that matter.
Steely Dan, you should understand one thing: if the potential employer is interested, they will NEVER forget to get in touch with you. Moreover, they do it quickly. It’s always like this, and trying to beg for a 2nd round (via voicemails and such), as well as trying to understand the reasoning underneath absense of whatever feedback is absolutely in vain. It doesn’t make any difference - just keep interviewing with other employers. As far as I understand, it often happens that such silent rejections happen to the interviewees who follow a “plain vanilla” route (typical a-la Vault guide answers etc) and simply lacks pure intellectual power (which, contrary to many other things, is either available or not, from birth - one can’t do much about it).