No vote, no voice

[ohai]

I know that California has some right leaning places, particularly in central California or some southern California areas like Orange County. However, the county where I lived, Alameda County, which contains the cities of Berkeley and Oakland, is possibly the most left leaning county in all of the US.

[Greenman72]

@Sweep_the_Leg

@Greenman72

@Sweep_the_Leg

We’ve had two of these exact same threads over the last year, but without BS around I think Greenie will have to be the lone voice (or lack there of) of radical reason.

Not voting is the lamest thing you can possibly due. It’s childish and petchulant. If there were only two candidates to choose from then maybe, maybe I’d see your point. Nowadays, however, there are almost always a libertarian or other third party candidate on the ballot. Start voting for one of those guys.

Sure, most libertarian candidates are complete nutjobs, but you have to vote for them to get the attention of the two serious contenders. That’s the only way to tell them there are people out here that want to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal (of communist if you choose to vote that way).

By simply not voting, you’re not making a statement. You’re doing absolutely nothing. You’re throwing in the towel and crying about a system that doesn’t work for you while doing nothing to change it. I have zero pity for non-voters and cringe when they whine about the system.

There are exactly zero politicians in office that think, “wow, voter turnout is low. Maybe we should change our views to encourage them to get off their lazy asses? Now, how do I do that without jepordizing my base that’s elected me to four terms?” Yeah, I’m sure they’ll get right on that.

Let me add there’s some serious amount of hubris along with your childishness if you think any politician cares you don’t vote.

Since it’s election day, I just wanted to throw a “hooray” to Sweep. This post actually got me thinking, and I actually voted this year. (Straight Libertarian, I might add.)

Excellent. I too voted this morning. I voted for a republican, an independent, a democrat, and a libertarian. Screw party lines.

To be fair, I went to isidewith.org and answered all their questions, and I used that to help determine who I was going to vote for. Every single (contested) candidate that it suggested was a Libertarian, so I figured that would be quicker than going through one by one.

[Greenman72]

@naren\_

@Sweep_the_Leg

Excellent. I too voted this morning. I voted for a republican, an independent, a democrat, and a libertarian. Screw party lines.

Good job. I of course am too elitist to go to a voting booth, but I voted by mail for good candidates, regardless of party lines.

Ohai - California is more moderate (less left-leaing) than you think. Our state legislature hoever is dominated by Dems because of safe seats. And we are safely Dem in national elections for senators and President. Not so for Congress and local bodies.

'Tis true. I can only name two former CA governators, and they were both Republicans.

[Sweep_the_Leg]

^You’re a fan of James Rolph Jr. and Goodwin Jess Knight too?

14.5 of the last 20 governors of CA were republicans. (Hiram Johnson switched to progressive in the middle of his term.)

[naren]

@Greenman72

To be fair, I went to isidewith.org and answered all their questions, and I used that to help determine who I was going to vote for. Every single (contested) candidate that it suggested was a Libertarian, so I figured that would be quicker than going through one by one.

I think the Libertarian party has found an excellent strategy to convince undecided voters to vote for them - bribe isidewith.org to recommend them no matter what answers you chose

[system]

Haven’t voted in years, the whole thing seems like nonsense. The corporations run the government, really. Your vote is worth shit compared to their money. Besides when has something of consequence ever been put to a vote?

[geo]

@ohai

I know that California has some right leaning places, particularly in central California or some southern California areas like Orange County. However, the county where I lived, Alameda County, which contains the cities of Berkeley and Oakland, is possibly the most left leaning county in all of the US.

More so than Hawaii?

[Sweep_the_Leg]

@purealpha

Haven’t voted in years, the whole thing seems like nonsense. The corporations run the government, really. Your vote is worth shit compared to their money. Besides when has something of consequence ever been put to a vote?

Meh, the people in government won’t really affect my life all that much. The ballot measures, on the other hand, are pretty fun to follow. Big day for the legalization of marijuana with all three measures passing (Alaska, Oregon, and D.C.). There were also some important measures on abortion. You had North Dakota and Colorado voting to, essentially, make abortion illegal (it failed in both states), and in Tennessee voters agreed to give the government more power to restrict abortions.

I would say those are examples of something of consequence.

[Palantir]

Damn…I didn’t realize there was an election till today…not that I care…

[rawraw]

Edwin Edwards got 30% of the vote in Louisiana and is in the run-offs. Impressive since this is his first shot at running since getting out of prison for racketeering.

[higgmond]

@Sweep_the_Leg

^You’re a fan of James Rolph Jr. and Goodwin Jess Knight too?

14.5 of the last 20 governors of CA were republicans. (Hiram Johnson switched to progressive in the middle of his term.)

How many times are you counting Jerry Brown?

[ohai]

To the credit of CA governors, most of them seem to be somewhat party independent in terms of policy. That is, if you look at their legislative history, it is hard to tell if they are Democrat or Republican. This is a good thing. Plus, since governors don’t caucus together like Senators or House members, it does not matter as much which party they belong to. While Jerry does support all kinds of taxes, he did manage to cut spending when the state needed it, in the face of open rebellion from the Democratic state senate (super) majority. Arnold calls himself a Republican, but he does what he wants.

[Robotech]

@Sweep_the_Leg

…Nowadays, however, there are almost always a libertarian or other third party candidate on the ballot. Start voting for one of those guys.

Sure, most libertarian candidates are complete nutjobs, but you have to vote for them to get the attention of the two serious contenders. That’s the only way to tell them there are people out here that want to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal (of communist if you choose to vote that way).

Yes, that’s what I did.

[Sweep_the_Leg]

^It brought me great joy to see the two primary candidates tied at 48% and the libertarian candidate getting 4%. Oh how the democrats (this year anyway) wished they could have captured just half the libertarian votes. They probably would have picked up a couple/few more seats.

[Greenman72]

@Sweep_the_Leg

Not voting is the lamest thing you can possibly due. It’s childish and petchulant. If there were only two candidates to choose from then maybe, maybe I’d see your point. Nowadays, however, there are almost always a libertarian or other third party candidate on the ballot. Start voting for one of those guys.

Sure, most libertarian candidates are complete nutjobs, but you have to vote for them to get the attention of the two serious contenders. That’s the only way to tell them there are people out here that want to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal (of communist if you choose to vote that way).

By simply not voting, you’re not making a statement. You’re doing absolutely nothing. You’re throwing in the towel and crying about a system that doesn’t work for you while doing nothing to change it. I have zero pity for non-voters and cringe when they whine about the system.

There are exactly zero politicians in office that think, “wow, voter turnout is low. Maybe we should change our views to encourage them to get off their lazy asses? Now, how do I do that without jepordizing my base that’s elected me to four terms?” Yeah, I’m sure they’ll get right on that.

Let me add there’s some serious amount of hubris along with your childishness if you think any politician cares you don’t vote.

I used to not vote. Then I read the aforementioned post from Sweep. I have voted in every election since.

See, Sweep. You have made a difference in one person’s life. I owe you a hug next time we meet.

[Palantir]

Actually you should not vote because the incremental value of your vote has zero impact on election outcomes.

[Black_Swan]

To me it seems like throwing away your vote on a party that got 4% is only barely marginally better than not voting. To go to the extreme of calling those people childish but then holding yourself on estemed ground over a difference in tactics is a bit intense (not that I don’t do that).

Also, the real impact of those votes would have to be measured against the districts they occured in since as we all know it’s not a popular vote.

[Black_Swan]

That being said, I’ve entertained the idea of voting Libertarian instead (still thinking about it). I’ll see how I feel when elections roll around.

[Greenman72]

If for no other reason, I want to show my elected officials that I don’t like them, and I am voting against them.

In my county, there were a total of 18 Libertarian votes for US Representative last year. That’s not saying much in a county of 136,000 people. But it shows Mike Conaway (my representative) that I don’t like him and I’m not going to vote for him. And if that number starts to increase, then he may have to rethink his consituency.

For the record–I doubt he’ll ever face any heat in our uber-conservative area, but the point still stands.

[higgmond]

@Black_Swan

To me it seems like throwing away your vote on a party that got 4% is only barely marginally better than not voting.

I don’t think I can disagree with this more strongly (philosophically at least). While it’s true that voting for a candidate who has no shot is mathematically pretty much the same as not voting, your vote for that candidate still serves as your voice in the election. You are proactively saying that you support that candidate and his/her views and the winner should understand that he/she serves you as well. Many people argue that not voting sends a similar message, and if someone chooses not to vote because they have honestly considered the candidates and cannot stomach voting for any of them, I can kind of agree. Where that breaks down though is that the winner has no idea that you made an concious decision to not support anyone, they think you’re just too lazy to bother. Everyone has the right to not vote though.