So I got an offer...

…to work as a sell-side analyst (small/mid cap world) on the left coast for an ibank with about 250 employees. I hear that things are rough on Wall St., LEH is cutting drastically, CITI is likely to follow, etc. I imagine I shouldn’t be picky but wanted to get some thoughts. First, My Background: *Work at a place HEAVILY impacted by this mortgage mess. Yes I still have my job - for now. My expiration date is anywhere from 3-12 months. *~4 years corporate finance work experience *CFA Charterholder *Goal - ultimately want to get to buy-side *Decent salary between 85-100 (bonus is close to $zero at this point) *Work schedule 9:00am-5:00pm Their Pitch: *Expected Work schedule 4:30am - 5:30pm, with some weekends and longer hours during earnings season *Comp Offer - ~65k-70k + bonus = ~115 all in. Although, given the status of the market, who knows what the bonus will end up looking like… *Role - Would start out supporting an analyst for 12-18 months, and then become my own publishing analyst after that. I was initially totally excited about the opportunity. It would be great experience. I could work there for 2-4 years and then go to the buyside. BUT, I’m really caught up on the comp. The base salary seems like a massive stepback (and lifestyle change) for me and the all in comp is barely more than I’m at now, especially considering the hours. I realize the market is crappy, and even much smaller to begin with on the west coast. Should I take what I can get at this point, or keep searching? I haven’t really engaged in a full-on search at this point, but this opportunity happened to come about pretty quickly. Thanks friends. Cheers

starting work at 4:30AM is brutal

I wouldnt count on a guaranteed transition to the buy-side after this position - especially if the firm’s reputation is less than stellar… Not only that, but those hours sound BRUTAL! You would be waking up at ~3:30ish and not getting out until almost 6? And you would do this for 65k? No bonus should be expected in this environment… I’m not trying to burst your bubble, but this doesn’t sound that great. Granted, if you are about to lose your job, then it is a matter of survival and nobody would fault you. But if you have a choice, I would think long and hard.

I’d take the job anyway in this environment but think about this. If you factor in time and a half for overtime, you are making $28 / hr ($115k @ 65hrs / week). You are making $16 / hr on your base factoring overtime. Ouch.

I know a lot of small cap firms on the west coast that strictly cover banking clients. Take a look at their banking transactions against their research coverage…

i wouldn’t take it. i work on the west coast with hours similar to those and it’s pretty awful. getting in at 4:30-5:00 does not get any easier. you might think you will be able to adjust or just suck it up, but you would be the rare exception. the comp seems low as well. i’ve been working these hours for about two years now and i am really friggin burnt out. are you the same ryguy that posts on another forum (MBA related)? i guess you did not get in this year? or are you thinking that you will hedge by taking this position in case you don’t get in? btw, where did you apply? i don’t know what the rest of your stats look like, etc. but based on your background, it seems like you would be able to transition to the buyside with an MBA from a good school faster than you would by taking this position. keep in mind that the 12-18 month transition is not guaranteed (or is it?) and that if things get really bad, you might be stuck in that role for a while.

Here are my observations, in no particular order: -If you anticipate losing your job in the near future, you might seriously consider taking a job that pays six-figures all-in. -Your work hours seem pretty standard for the west coast. While I was on the sell-side, I worked on the west coast a few times and saw those same hours, and sometimes worse. Getting up at 3:45AM wasn’t something I ever really got used to, but maybe it’s easier for other people. I mean, there are night shift jobs out there and a lot of people have those, so I’m sure it’s not impossible to do. -What makes you think you will become a publishing analyst in 12-18 months? Will you be covering equities, fixed income, or something else? I’ll ask the question again: what assurance do you have that you will really become a coverage analyst in less than 2 years, and how do you know it’s not lip service? -What firm is this? I know the sell-side world well. Hard to tell what your placement and comp ranks if I don’t know the firm. But based on your qualifications and the current market, I would say that you are anywhere from moderately underpaid to slightly below average, but not vastly so. There are many people on the market right now that have equal or better qualifications.

Why on the West coast could they have you staying till 8:30pm EST? I’m on the sell-side on the East Coast, and I’m rarely at work that late during non-earnings season, although I guess it depends on the industry you’re covering…

asdffdsa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > are you the same ryguy that posts on another forum > (MBA related)? i guess you did not get in this > year? or are you thinking that you will hedge by > taking this position in case you don’t get in? The latter-EXACTLY!

numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > -What makes you think you will become a publishing > analyst in 12-18 months? I was told I would be. > Will you be covering > equities, fixed income, or something else? I’ll > ask the question again: > what assurance do you have that you will really become a coverage analyst in > less than 2 years, and how do you know it’s not lip service? I met with two people at the firm that did/have done this. > -What firm is this? Can we talk offline? I’m at ryguy904@aol.com - Thanks numi

sure…you can email me at porcupines AT gmail the reason i ask about your coverage situation is because a lot of times, esp. in these markets, people get told things that don’t end up materializing. looking at it another way, firms overpromise and underdeliver. anyway, your situation right now is too ambiguous to me so it’s hard to really tell whether it’s a good position for you, but there’s nothing about your background and the position that say it’s a horrible mismatch right now, especially given that your current employment situation is unlikely to improve and your positioning in the job market could fall as more people on the sell-side get laid off.

numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > sure…you can email me at porcupines AT gmail I’ll send you a note around 6:30PST tonight.

ruguy904, I know you don’t want to be specific on the bank, but what city is it based in? SF, LA, etc?

islandergold Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ruguy904, I know you don’t want to be specific on > the bank, but what city is it based in? SF, LA, > etc? Curious why your asking…From a comp standpoint, one would expect it to be the same in SF or LA or SD, right?

if you know that you’re not going to be working at your current employer in the next 12 months and you have an offer on the table, shouldn’t it be clear that you should be taking the offer? It’s not like you can shop around for better offers, since they will likely give you a couple of weeks to decide if you want to join them. After that, then they will rescind the offer. So effectively, this reduces your option to: A. Take the job. B. Find another job in the next couple of weeks. C. Say “no” and wait for a better opportunity. Given the job market and the fact that the pool of applicants will likely increase in the coming months, option B and C are not that great. I will definitely give an Option B a chance (you never know). Try Option B, then proceed with Option A.

I would expect a little more in SF due to the cost of living being slightly higher and LA companies (in general) seem to be the most stingy in the country, and I mean stingy.

So, which one is it? There are hundreds of banks in each city so you’ve got nothing to worry about. edit: congrats on the offer!

negativefcf Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > if you know that you’re not going to be working at > your current employer in the next 12 months and > you have an offer on the table, shouldn’t it be > clear that you should be taking the offer? It’s > not like you can shop around for better offers, > since they will likely give you a couple of weeks > to decide if you want to join them. After that, > then they will rescind the offer. > > So effectively, this reduces your option to: > > A. Take the job. > > B. Find another job in the next couple of weeks. > > > C. Say “no” and wait for a better opportunity. > > Given the job market and the fact that the pool > of applicants will likely increase in the coming > months, option B and C are not that great. I will > definitely give an Option B a chance (you never > know). Try Option B, then proceed with Option A. The company wants to know verbally immediately (Less than 48 hours). I pushed back, but they would not budge AT ALL. Is that standard?

A Charterholder just earning 65K … shucks!!!

ryguy904 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > asdffdsa Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > are you the same ryguy that posts on another > forum > > (MBA related)? i guess you did not get in this > > year? or are you thinking that you will hedge > by > > taking this position in case you don’t get in? > > The latter-EXACTLY! it seems like you are in a tough spot. what happens if you take this job and then find out you are accepted? are you prepared to leave this position in 4-5 months or less to go to school? i’m not criticizing so much as curious about your thoughts. on the one hand, the job market doesn’t appear likely to get any better in the short run, but on the other hand, you may not want to damage your resume by staying at a job for less than one year edit: i would add also that nothing is guaranteed if it’s not in writing. if the economy stays weak, they may take a conservative stance and may not have any openings to move you up to coverage analyst. also, it may be that people decide to hunker down into their current jobs to wait out the storm, thus exacerbating the lack of openings at the firm (double whammy). if you do take the job, try to get them to commit to promotion with a written contract.