So now the ground crew, fueling company and the airline itself is in on the conspiracy? Nah. They know where the plane is, it’s limited to two areas based on the satellite data. One or the other, north end of the arc or south end of the arc. The satellite data ceased right around when the fuel was projected to run out. This is pretty much a done deal. Just a matter of time before the Aussies find it.
It’s unfortunate that this had to drag out. If this was in the US, the Americans would have had the satellite data sorted in a day or two and they’ve have found the wreckage and boxes by now. But the incompetent authorities over there just couldn’t get stuff right and didn’t even know what questions to ask. Just today they realised the pilot made a phone call right before taking off… just today. The US would have known what was said on that call 12 days ago.
Was it believable when it was first revealed that 2 people with stolen passports were able to just board an international flight? Not sure why the airline and multiple crew members have to be in on it? You really feel comfortable with Malaysia’s ability to monitor how much fuel goes in a plane when they can’t even monitor who the hell boards a plane.
Well, the airline has to pay the fuel bill and the pilot, co-pilot and flight engineer would all be signing off on the fuel flight plan calcuation. This is double checked AFTER the plane is filled. Fuel weight is verified and then checked against the computer calcuation of required fuel to destination + alternative site + safe margin.
Airlines monitor this stuff like hawks. Not because of FAA regulations or whatever, but because they are in a near zero margin business. Fuel on board is optimized to the extreme. The amount of fuel to be loaded would be determined by the flight operations of the airline long in advance of the plane being filled.
Could someone sneak more fuel on? Possible, but it would require the cooperation of the entire flight crew, some ground crew and the fueling company. The pilot can’t just call down and say, “umm yeah today just fill 'er up.”
Most Americans wouldn’t risk several years in jail for $10k.
All of that holds true if it was an American or even an European airline. You expect similar rules to be followed by a state owned airline from one of the most corrupted countries in the world? I am not too sure… Regardless it is not something that can be easily accomplished but definitely not impossible. And based on all the facts (lack there of) we have uncovered over the past 10 days I don’t think it should be completely ruled out. Especially if we are to believe that the plane was deliberately turned around with transponders shut off and no signs of mechanical failure. Now the worst thing would be if the Australian lead is another red herring and they decide to go back and the search the area of the initial disappearance and find the plane crash right there.
But seriously how hard can it be? Fly to an offbeat country- Sell your passport, report it to the embassy there with a good cover story, they probably won’t even bat an eyelid if you’re not an obvious junkie or have any red flags where they might think you’re a terrorist.
Vacation paid for with more than enough left for another six months in Asia, Africa etc.
I agree with geo more. jet fuel is hideously expensive, it’s monitored extremely closely. it would have to be a well coordinated plot that includes ground crew in on it to fuel up the max when the destination is not anywhere as far away.
As much as I would like to think I know what I am talking about I still think no theory (conspiracy or not) should be ruled out. Way too many conflicting facts in this case to suggest one theory over the other. For ex: If there was a mechanical failure then how did the plane send signals hours after first contact was lost? Why didn’t the pilots attempt to land? If it was pilot suicide then why bother flying deep into the ocean? What about the flight simulator and deleted contents? Why is China being so quiet when 95% of the passengers were Chinese nationals? Why was Indonesia quiet for 10 days? If decompression is to be believed then why turn around but send no signal? Also co-pilot’s last words suggest that nothing was wrong onboard… At least in the Air France case all signs pointed to one or two scenarios. Bad weather, faulty gauges, distress signal, etc. They also found the plane on the flight path within 5 days. Only thing that is becoming more believable is that the plane has crashed vs a successful landing. Too much time has passed for it to have landed with no attempt made to contact civilization. But this still does not rule out anything in terms of engine problems/hijacking/suicide etc.
Anything is possible, but what reason do we have to believe that there was a conspiracy to change the fuel levels in the plane? It’s possible that a tea cup is orbiting the sun between Uranus ans Pluto, but why hypothesize this with no other reason?
^ Based on my quick research, large commerical planes have a glide ratio of 15-20:1. So if was flying at 5,000 feet when it ran out of fuel, it would have glided for another 14 - 19 miles assuming the flight surfaces were intact.
Those photos represent the debris field in the BBC image I posted above. If the military experts looking at them see aircraft, then I’ll trust them, but I am kind of with higgmond… I’d never be able to distinguish that myself.
Apparently the issue right now is searching this area is difficult. The P-3 Orion maritime search aircraft can only stay airborne for a couple hours over the search area (which is just a little smaller than Texas) because the travel distance to and from the location is so far. Weather has not been cooperative either… this is a really stormy part of the world. However, the forecast for the next 24-48 looks promising.
All I’ve got to say is this better be cleared up before I start my new job. Too much time following this!
Well, obviously no current or ex airline pilots on this thread. In most cases, I’m sure there are exceptions, more fuel is as easy as telling Leroy(the fuel truck/pump guy) to put 90k pounds instead of 80k or whatever. One of the pilots, usually the first officer, runs into the fueler during the pre-flight inspection quite often. The fueler does what he is told. The fueler does not know/care where the plane is going. He knows what gate the plane is parked at and has instructions on how many pounds of fuel should be on board. “Company”, meaning the operating company, would know what amount of fuel is onboard modern airliners and may or may not query the crew if they notice an excessive amount before take off. Very common for Captains to request more fuel for many reasons. Least is not the addition of an alternate airport on the flight plan which is needed if weather becomes suspect at the intended destination or maybe winds aloft have changed or maybe atc has re-routed the flight at the last minute. The dispatcher is to be informed/conferred with because he or she shares responsibility for the flight with the captain. This rule differs from company to company, but the Captain still generally rules the roost, even more so in Asia. Modern ACARS also communicates real time fuel load to ground during flight. Even if the fuel truck was called back to load more fuel, no one would care or probably even notice. Standard day. Why do we humans, myself included, form opinions and opine on things we know nothing about? Is it not embarrassing?
^ The company’s operations folks would be made aware of extra fuel requests (via ACARS or from the fueling folks), especially if there was no reason for it. I think you admit as much in that post. If the plane was to be loaded for approx. 7 hours of flying time (which would be Beijing + Shanghai as an alternate) yet instead was loaded for 13 hours at maximum capacity at the whim of the captain, then that would certainly raise eyebrows, no?
I don’t think we’re concerned with an extra half hour due to wind concerns. Folks were implying the captain could have fully loaded the aircraft to nearly 2x the required fuel without much trouble, which I highly doubt.
In any event, it apperas the plane crashed after the estimated 7-8 hours of fuel it had on board expired. So I’m not sure why were are concerned about the plane being fully loaded and heading to Somalia or whatever. Especially since the flight path is largely known now due to the satellite data.
Off topic, but are financiers just the smartest folks in the world? It seems as if I ever want to know anything about something I can ask it on AF and some homie will be an expert. Everything in world has a financial implication, it’s no wonder that financiers are the most well rounded folks on all matters involving money.