^ But 19 Muslim extremists represent Islam?
Crusaders were violent thugs massacring inncoent people for the most part. Including cannibalism.
I think it’s great that Muslims and Christians and Jews are killing each other over religion. More for the rest of us.
I never said the other side was justified either! Ok maybe Afghanistan was somewhat justified, with the Taliban running the country and all, but Iraq was a bad decision. So were the Crusades.
freedom of speech is fine if used with a little restraint or thought.
why say something if it’s going to offend a segment of society.the world doesn’t really need to know your opinion
Why was Afghanistan justified? How many Afghans were involved in 9/11?
The attack was planned in Pakistan, and carried out by 19 Saudis and Egyptians. Now sure AQ was given shelter in Afghanistan, but by a regime that’s propped up by Pakistan. Afghans had little or nothing to do with it.
One note, it was a consulate in Libya, not an embassy. Security was essentially non-existant at the consulate. That was our bad.
And honestly, I don’t find anything wrong with the fact that the video criticized a religion or the muslim faith. I think you can’t have freedom of speach and say, “well only as long as it’s not offensive.” People argue politics, they argue moral views, all of this under freedom of speech and they inherintely say “the opposing view is wrong and fraudulant”, how can you suddenly say religion is different? Noone burned shit down or killed anyone over the film “Religulous” or called Mahr a selfish coward or whatever. And noone should have. It’s his right to say he finds any faith stupid. I’m from Christian background too and I can say that. Athiests and scientists have been calling religion stupid for years, but all the sudden Muslims get some special treatment and everyone better walk on eggshells because they’ll murder civilians over their egos? The bottom line is, they stand for oppression, and we stand for freedom, and that is where the violence occurs. They refer to everyone else as friggin infidels for Allah’s sake and call everyone else’s beliefs wrong and evil, and that’s okay, but if you do the same, you’re a bad crappy person and should be scolded? I refuse to surrender the core of what America stands for because some psycho picked up an RPG. This country was literally founded because Europeans were imprisoning, torturing and executing people with opposing faiths and Pilgrims felt that was wrong. There were several prominent athiests among the founding fathers. I dont’ feel like surrenduring that right to a bunch of lunatics at gunpoint.
I think it’s important to separate the fact that invading Afghanistan wasn’t meant to be a “punishment”, but merely to neutralize what had become a training grounds for future threats and remove a fairly violent regime. Now, I’m not saying I’d vote to do it again, but that was the rationale at the time. I hear you on the Pakistan point though. Just not sure how feasible it was to alter that situation.
Because at some point abolition was offensive to the south, women’s equality was offensive to the church, and the ability to choose your religious beliefs was offensive in Europe. Copernicus offended the Catholic Church at the time. Furthermore, Tea Party views are offensive to me. Many films are offensive to large segments of the bible belt. But the height of stupidity is to limit speach to a socially regulated guideline. Ask anyone who’s been forced to live under a regime.
I mean, they don’t allow women to leave homes in some areas, they execute people for changing religions and frequently kill each other over differences in faith. Maybe the West’s opinion of their faith does need to be heard. So it’s okay to have laws in Iran that allow them to execute people for converting to Christianity, but if a Christian somewhere even mentions that Islam is bad, they deserve to die as well? And freedom of speach is the problem?
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” - Voltaire
I believe this is essential. I also believe this view is what separates the relative intelligence of the west from the mindless animalism that occurs throughout the middle east. I wouldn’t want to cave to them because eventually we would simply become them. Criticizing free speach is simply validating their actions.
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Because at some point abolition was offensive to the south, women’s equality was offensive to the church, and the ability to choose your religious beliefs was offensive in Europe. Copernicus offended the Catholic Church at the time. Furthermore, Tea Party views are offensive to me. Many films are offensive to large segments of the bible belt. But the height of stupidity is to limit speach to a socially regulated guideline. Ask anyone who’s been forced to live under a regime.
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Abolition and women’s equality, although offensive at that time to the involved institutions, were just causes and there was an objective behind it which was rational. And Copernicus might have offended the church but what he presented was the truth. Hence it was worth fighting for. I dont understand how you can compare these causes to making a video to make fun of Mohammed and the Muslims for no apparent reason other than making fun of Mohammed and the Muslims.
Im not saying that justifies the violence that occurred and I completely agree that it was probably pre-planned. But the riots and the general reaction of muslims being offended is justified.
This x1000. Especially that quote.
I don’t mean to generalize, but frankly Islam as a whole needs to modernize and we need to stop apologizing everytime somebody gets offended.
In no other religion today do you see this sort of violence at such a high volume. And please don’t cite the crusades in a desperate attempt to find some sort of false equivalence with Christianity. I’m no fan of religion in general, but that is such a terrible comparison considering the last crusades were in the 13th century… its 2012 folks.
Unless you consider the backward @ss beliefs of the Muslim church to be both detrimental to human rights (how they treat women and minorities) and false. In which case all three points above hold true, justifying verbal attack.
Im not saying that justifies the violence that occurred and I completely agree that it was probably pre-planned. But the riots and the general reaction of muslims being offended is justified.
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By this logic then riots should be justified anytime anyone gets offended; I assume you meant peaceful protest, because a riot generally implies violence, civil unrest and property damage.
I’ll go a step further though. If someone peed all over the American flag and then proceeded to burn it I would consider this extremely offensive; which this basically is what is going on over there anyway. But, I’m not about to go out and terrorize the neighborhood and incite riots (nor is the rest of the country). It’s called being civilized.
Like my man Rodney said, “Can’t we all just get along!?”
http://anti–islam.blogspot.com/2005/06/saudi-arabia-desecrates-hundreds-of.html
Sick of playing PR games with these psychos.
^ I was just about to mention that lol.
It is for some reason OK to discard Bibles if you’re found with one, but the rest of the world has to be respectful to the Koran?
Times like these make me go watch Sam Harris videos
What are you saying he should have done? Invade Lyba? Find some shit to bomb there and bomb it.
Are you for real? God’s blessing??? Seriously, is that a joke?
With regards to claims that Obama is a muslim. I’d heard before that a significant number of people in the U.S. still think this, but I didn’t expect to hear it from people on this forum.
With regards to him not being born in the U.S. Who cares where he was born, honestly?
The consumer. where is the great consumer that will lift all boats like a rising tide? I cast my vote for the Consumer. The rest can swim in brimstone.
I just tallied a $1000 usd toll on foreign businesswomen. (hookers). NYC style. as always, I’ll wake up tomorrow and regret it.
Sometimes I think it’s shame, when I get feeling better when i’m feeling no pain.
‘lockheed is a bad ass’…pass it around !
I agree with some boarder who said that Islam has to become a little modern in its ways. When somebody talks ill about things who you highly regard, the best way is to look at their face smile and “Dogs bark at sun” look and move on. What is lacking in people is “tolerance”! You need that to live in this world presently.
Why are muslims so bothered when somebody claims ill about their prophet? And killing a few people totally unrelated to this is just insane or rather inhuman. They need to understand that this spoils the image of Islam to other religious followers.
Now some american created a video against Islam, so let me will kill whichever Americans I see… Sorry totally wrong logic. I am from India and my forefathers have been killed in the freedom struggle by the British. That gives me no right to go to England and kill 5 people walking on the road and claim victory! Two wrongs dont make a right.
“Being tolerant is not a weakness, but is the greatest strength”!
This thread reminds me of an excellent debate i have seen on intelligence squared
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A
There is another one with Stephen Fry (god) and Hitchens in the UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5OMNPmoVAw&feature=related
If you have the time…I would recommend watching these