You know what, I’m kind of interested now. I’m meeting with an MD/PhD Immunologist in a couple of weeks and can ask her on a side note. I bet she knows quite a bit.
lol bchad to break the ice
You’re gonna probably want to go with three kids. The title should be the “Wizard of Oz: Lion, Tiger, and Bear Survival Experiment” 1) Don’t give them shots 2) Put them in enclosures - one with the Tiger, other with the Lion, final with the Bear 3) See who survives the longest 4) Winner gets ice cream
I’m all for vaccines, other than the flu shot. The WHO doesn’t seem in alignment with US/Canada that everyone should get it. Also some sketchy stats on those that get the flu shot are actually worse off if infected with a flu virus that’s not in the shot (which is almost always the case). There is very weak evidence on the effectiveness of the flu shot in reducing hospital admissions due to respiratory illness. There is no significant difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. That’s science not Jenny McCartney nonsense. And the flu likely won’t kill you unless you’re old or already sick. Measles could be fatal or have lifelong impacts. As could pertussis, polio, diphtheria, mumps, meningitis. These vaccines make sense. Flu shot, I’m a skeptic.
Also: The parents are completely insane fundamentalist anti-state Christian types, God will cure our child, etc. The kid was so stiff from meningitis he couldn’t sit in a car seat so they took him to their naturopath where she gave them some herbal nonsense. Kid stopped breathing later on, died in hospital. Several people told them they needed emergency medical care and they instead gave him herbal supplements and fancy Gatorade. This happened a hundred miles from where I’m at, so I’ve been following this closely, been a big news story here as the trial went on.
i used to get the flu shot every year but then feel terrible a week after. i would always get sick also.
the last few years i decided not to get one and cant really say ive been sick more or as much.
im going w.out the flu shot for the forseebale future
This. The main research that started the current anti-vaccine movement was conducted by Dr. Andrew Wakefield and made a connection between vaccines and autism. Not only has that research been disproven, Dr. Wakefield has admitted that he faked the results. There were legitimate concerns about the amount of mercury in vaccines, but mercury has been largely eliminated over the last 10 or 15 years.
I’m with Geo. the flu shot is not what it’s cracked up to be and who knows what the strand will be anyway for a particular year
Yea the flu shot shouldnt be lumped in with regular vaccines. As far as I am aware they really just try to guess each year at what its going to be because it evolves so rapidly (at least that is what I have heard)
Based on personal experience, I seem to get it the same amount whether I get it or not. I understand why it would be recommended for the elderly as the flu can become a serious issue for them and I would most likely get it when I am older. If I get the flu now I work from home a few days and am fine, so what.
I read about this story… absolutely INSANE.
Link for those that havent read: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/meningitis-trial-verdict-1.3552941
Sadly, there is at least 1 story like this every year that gets picked up by the national media. Even sadder, I’m sure there are dozens of such stories every year that don’t get picked up by the national media.
I don’t always get a flu shot, but the way I look at it is there’s an incredibly small (essentially non-existent) chance that it will hurt me and a medium sized chance that I could benefit from it so there’s not a big reason not to get it…
It’s all about that risk/reward trade-off.
Wait? What? It’s science. Nobody fudges data to promote their own interests and/or secure research dollars. The horror. Shame on you. You must be some wing nut…
Antibiotics - yay or nay?
Obviously a meaningless question in its generality unless you are trying to engage in a philosophical debate about the usefulness and importance of antibiotic drugs in modern medicine.
Don’t you care to know if you get a prescription for an antibiotic what it is for, is that your only option, are there alternative treatments, does it have known side effects, what branded types, what generics? It will be totally retarded not to ask your doctor these questions. You don’t need to be an MD to stay informed about your treatment options.
Why wouldn’t you as a parent go through the same process before you make a decision on behalf of another individual - your kid - to vaccinate them? Because WHO and CDC said so? F. this. The moment you start an inquiry to get an informed opinion, most doctors will look at you as if you are a bible-waving nutjob trying to impede medical progress. Not everyone who has questions is a fanatical anti-vaxer. Some are genuinely concerned parents who would prefer a less hysterical dialogue, more options (the vaccine market is a staggering monopoly), better conducted and more involved premarket research process and some proof of accountability.
Who needs vaccines when you have prayers?
Amiright6?
There’s a difference between asking a question and taking a position based on fraudulent research and refusing to move from it. My wife and I did ask the question of our pediatrician and we had a very calm, adult discussion about it. He pointed us to the research suggesting that Dr. Wakefield’s research was unsubstantiated. Dr. Wakefield had not yet admitted his fraud when our oldest was getting the vast majority of her shots, so his findings were still “debatable”. Our pediatrician was very understanding of our concerns, but strongly recommended that we follow the AAP vaccination recommendations. He didn’t look at us as zealots, just concerned parents. Once we did enough of our own research, we decided it was best to get all the shots recommended by the AAP. As noted before, we did decide to space them out a little bit to avoid getting so many shots at once. The spacing was only a couple of weeks though, not months or years as proposed by Dr. Sears.
Ok, lets look at it simply. Look at the levels of occurance of every major vaccine treated disease in the US and western countries pre and post vaccine era. Most will agree with me that they work (leaving flu out of this because I also don’t mess with those shots). If you don’t, you have a high mountain to climb to convince any sane person otherwise, the burden of proof is now on you.,
Ok, now we want to talk about the risks. Even the risks associated with vacinating are excessively low probability (if you even buy into the links) and less severe. But with autism in particular, it is so hard to find a reliable study because even in an unvacinated population you have all the other autism linked risk factors like having kids at an older age or with a larger age gap and the environments the children are raised in.
So even if you could prove the risks (unlikely), you still really can’t overturn the proof of benefits. So the argument really becomes, will you try to cheat the system and rely on herd immunity for individual optimization which is both selfish and flawed at a societal level.
For me, it’s a no brainer because I plan on traveling with my kid to enough (non-developed) countries that relying on herd immunization would not make sense even if I were into the whole mumbo jumbo.
Beyond that, to Higgs point, most of the evidence that is still being trumpeted in the anti vax argument has now been conclusively disproven with some of it even being shown as outright fraud.
while i agree that the flu shot should not be lumped with essential vaccines, even if the flu shot has moderate efficacy and reduces the total number of flu case by a meaningful number, as a society that is many infants and elderly that survive a flu season. the flu shot is much more for your kids and your parents/grandparents than it is for yourself. this being the case, i find it funny that there are many socialist/leftist individuals who opt not to get the flu shot. idiots.
^ I never got a flu shot until my kids were born. I’ve rarely been sick over my life, so I’ve either been extremely lucky or have some natural resistance to common ailments. The only reason I started getting a flu shot is the exact reason MLA gave. Our pediatrician said the shot is not for me, it’s for my kids. The concept isn’t as important now that they get the shot themselves, but I’m pretty sure the shot isn’t going to kill me or make me sick, so the mild discomfort for a day or two is fine with me.