StL - I’d have to disagree. All I think that teaches is that violence is an appropriate way to get attention or to accomplish objectives. That said, I’m not strongly opposed to allowing some physical control. But involving weapons or repeated attacks like AP whipping his kid are way way way beyond my view of reasonable. Why an NFL running back needs a weapon to control a 4 year old is beyond my comprehension.
Didn’t know it was a weapon.
And I’m guessing you don’t have kids.
spanking your kids generally leads to the kids becoming bullies themselves.
How is using a stick not a weapon? And yes I have a kid.
My parents hit me when I was a kid. So did teachers. It’s just a thing people do in some places. None of this corporal punishment was to the extent of causing bleeding or lasting damage. I do not think that people like me grew up to become abnormal or bullies. However, we probably do exhibit some distinct cultural values, particularly respect for authority and desire to do well within the rules of the system. These values do have negative aspects, but overall, I must conclude that the life outcome of people from cultures like mine has been positive, especially in developed countries.
However, spanking must be context appropriate. If kids are used to negative reinforcement at home and in school, perhaps they would be more open to accepting corporal punishment as a signal that they must improve. However, in a culture like the US, where kids are coddled and are only given positive reinforcement, perhaps they will respond to spanking in a rebellious manner.
^ I think there are ways for kids to develop respect for authority, other than corporal punishment. I’ll take the argument further: why is it OK to correct the behaviour of a learning child with violence, and not OK to punch a subordinate in the face at work when they underperform. I mean, you need to teach those juniors to respect your authority. Why does an adult, with more control over their behaviour, have more rights than the child. What I think it comes down to is mostly chicken shit adults that get their jollies from violence, but are too cowardly to do it when someone may fight back or where they may face legal or financial consequence. So beating their kids fulfills some behavioural need that they can’t otherwise satisfy.
^ Not disagreeing with your overall position, but there are a ton of cases where adults have more rights than a child:
Children can’t drive, vote, smoke, drink alcohol, smoke pot, join the military, go to NC17 movies, join free porn websites, sign themselves out of school, work more than a certain number of hours per week (or work at all if under a certain age), etc.
^ I’m talking basic human rights. Why do you gain the right to be free of physical violence at 18? And why can only your parent or specific designates unleash physical punishment? Where does this right come from? I can’t logically follow the ethics arguement supporting why violence against children is OK.
Punishing your child for doing something wrong, even if it takes the form of a spanking, is very fundamentally different from “domestic violence”.
If you disagree with that, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I would not really classify this as “physical violence”. It’s not like I got stabbed or something. To me, many parental actions are more unethical than spanking, including feeding children junk food that makes them fat adults, not providing a good psychological environment, or raising them with a misguided sense of entitlement. Other, beneficial actions cause physical pain - like getting injections. I would not say a hot nurse inflicted violence on me because she gives me a flu shot.
The question associated with any voluntarily inflicted physical pain is whether the end justifies the means. I doubt that I will hit my kids if I have any. However, I do not think my childhood was inappropriate due to spanking either.
According to nurture shock (a book that was touted on AF) different cultures (they used African Americans as their example) can hit their kids and it won’t be as damaging because culturally it’s the norm for their group. Now if a kid from a non-hitting culture (White Americans) receives corporal punishment the psychological impact is greater because they assume their behavior is so bad that an abnormal form of punishment was required. Bottom line corporal punishment is okay as long as everyone in your group is doing it and bad if you’re the only one doing it.
I’m sure everyone would agree that corporal punishment isn’t the optimal form of disciplining children but comparing two different cultures is apples to oranges. Sir Charles was right if what AP did was a crime almost every black mother south of the Mason Dixon would be in jail.
Agree with the “spanking/hitting your kids is OK” crowd here. Happened to me, I didn’t like it, but was probably good for me. Kids are not adults, they don’t have all the same rights. This is a harsh world, the sooner they learn that, the better. I don’t agree with physical abuse, which is different. There is a context to it.
I also got put in a corner. Didn’t work. All it did was make me bored. A good whoopin. That changed my life.
There is a fundamental difference between a spanking and a whipping. The use of weapons is insane. I said I recognize a grey area. Some spanking is likely not violent or abusive, though much probably is. Any use of a weapon crosses that line for me.
When a junior at work shows up late, do you just punch him in the face? Why not? I bet they wouldn’t do it again, especially if it really hurt. For most, spanking is likely the venting of frustration for those without control and/or other outlets. I don’t think the spanking Ohai is talking about is the same as whipping a kid with a stick until he bleeds.
Yeah, I don’t really agree with hitting/spanking your kid. There are much better, non-violent ways to discipline a child. It’s also important to show a unified front. When I wouldn’t do my homework or didn’t pick up my toys, my parents would force me to play russian roulette with an (unloaded) revolver on my dog. There was no risk of violence, but it got the point across. Only once, when they found cigarettes my room did the force me to do it on myself. Of course, once I turned twelve or so I realized that the revolver wasn’t loaded and just started clicking away, but by then I was already a pretty good kid.
That explains it.
please tell me this is sarcasm or hyperbole.
This reminds me of what my parents did when i stepped out of line. We would convene in the treehouse out back with the family guinea pigs and i would be made to select 1 to be thrown off the side. The selection process was excruciating, do you go for a chubby one with a better chance of a quick death upon impact or do you go for a small one that might survive to live another day and keep on fighting the good fight. Of course, my parents would never follow through with the ceremony and we’d all end up escorting the guinea pigs, both chubby and small, off the tree house and back to their cage for their ice cream reward.
good lessons were learned and it was certainly character building until the day that Humphrey decided that he’d had enough of this gruesome ceremony and flew to freedom.
I don’t think any of these psychological games would have worked on me as a kid. Getting my ass beat was 100% more effective than any threat of taking away my toys or ice cream.
Parents have special rights and special responsibilities. You don’t have the right to use physical punishment on someone who works for you because you don’t have any special responsibilities for them. For example, if your child gets sick, you don’t take him to the doctor/hospital, and he dies; you go to prison (in most cases). If your employee gets sick, doesn’t go to the hospital, and dies; you hire someone to replace him.
I don’t hit my kids because I think it makes them believe it will be okay to hit each other or their friends, but maybe when they are a bit older I’ll change my mind. I also have no problem with parents who do hit their kids because I believe it is their special right as a parent. That being said, hitting your kid to the point where they are bleeding or severly bruised goes too far. Nothing wrong with having a red bottom for a little while though.